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Reader Feedback/Tips on 10.3.8Return to News Page

Reader Reports on OS X 10.3.8
Reports / Summary Updated: 2/17/2005 (9AM ET)

Appeared in software update on Feb. 9th. Here's a clip from the SU window. (Download links and combo updaters/server updates below)

" The 10.3.8 Update delivers improved compatibility and reliability for Mac OS X v10.3 "Panther" and is recommended for all users.

Key updates include:
  • improved OpenGL technology and updated ATI and NVIDIA graphics drivers
  • improved file sharing and directory services for mixed Mac and PC networks
  • improved compatibility for third party applications and devices
  • previous standalone security updates

    For detailed information on this Update, please visit this website:
    For detailed information on Security Updates, please visit this website:
  • The 300569 kbase doc includes more detail on the changes:

    " ...These are some of the enhancements delivered with the Mac OS X 10.3.8 Update:

    Addresses an issue with Mac OS X 10.3.7 in which iChat, Mail, or other network-based applications could take a long time to open.

    Addresses an issue in which a computer wouldn't always restart automatically after a power failure, even when the Energy Saver preference option "Restart automatically after a power failure" was selected.

    Improves the performance of Blizzard World of Warcraft's "Full Screen Glow" video feature.

    Improves DVD Player compatibility when playing a movie (using certain ATI Radeon cards) to an external widescreen TV with a 16:9 aspect ratio.

    Resolves an issue in which a "flicker" could be seen when navigating DVD menus in DVD Player on certain PowerBook G4 computers.

    Addresses an issue in which a PowerBook G4 computer would, on rare occasion, wake from sleep with a black screen and not respond to any keyboard, mouse, or trackpad input.

    Addresses "jumping cursor" issues that might occur when using your portable computer's trackpad with your thumb, side of thumb, or a "flat" finger.

    Resolves an issue on certain Power Mac G5 computers where a fan cycles erratically at unexpected times, such as when Seti@home software is running.

    Speeds up Address Book and Mail LDAP lookups that are performed by a Cisco DistributedDirector DNS server.

    Addresses an issue that could prevent clients using the Active Directory plugin from binding to their Active Directory server. "

    I checked apple's download/support page and found these links to standalone updaters:

    If anyone finds 10.3.8 fixes, improves or breaks anything - let me know. Include system info and details on any 3rd party software/hardware in reports. Thanks.

    Security Update 2005-002 (Feb 22nd, 2005) Thanks to a heads-up from Reino, running software update in 10.3.8 today shows the new security update. Here's a copy of the SU window info:

    " Security Update 2005-002 delivers a number of security enhancements and is recommended for all Macintosh users. This update includes the following components:
    Java Web Start
    Core Java classes

    For detailed information on this Update, please visit this website:
    http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n61798 "

    Summary of Improvements/Tips/Problems reported:

    Reader Reports on 10.3.8: (most recent first except for replies/updates to previous reports.) I welcome feedback on 10.3.8 (if you find it fixes, improvecs or breaks anything) let me know. Include Mac Model info and details on any 3rd party software/hardware in reports. Thanks.

    Reader notes/tips on OS X 10.3.8 wake-from-sleep problems I've not had this problem personally but i don't use screensavers and put my PB to sleep manually (rather than have it set in Energy Saver). Matthew is one reader that had wake from sleep problems with his iBook G4 and wrote with info on how he solved it (from Apple tech support recommendations)

    It seems that if you get or have the sleep issue once, that is the hard freeze only recoverable via Command-Control-Power, that some items at system level get wonked, and the sleep issue will become more frequent and do more damage on a cumulative level. Valuable steps to return to the best possible state seem to be:

  • Run Disk Warrior if you have it
  • Repair permissions
  • Reinstall 10.3.8 combo updater
  • Reinstall any pertinent updater since the 10.3.8 updater, specifically in most cases the 2005-002 Security update
  • Reset PMU
  • Reset PRAM and NVRAM
  • Run Disk Warrior if you have it
  • Repair permissions

    I know that's a lot, but if you have the problem, it sure is worth it. Previously the sleep issue repeated several times daily, since the above regime, 3 days of peace.
    Matthew C."

  • Unfortunately there's rarely a 100% fix for everyone:

    " Hi Mike,
    I saw Matthew's post (above) about how he fixed his Powerbook's wake from sleep problems. I had done all of the things he mentioned at various times, but since it was not in that specific order, I went ahead and followed his procedure. Alas, it had no effect on my 1 GHz Tibook, and it continues to refuse to wake from processor sleep.

    From the posts to Apple's Discussion forums, it seems that this is a hit-or-miss kind of problem. Some are able to fix it by flushing caches and resetting settings, while others (like myself) are not. I plan to archive and restore to revert back to 10.3.7 as soon as I have some time. I'll let you know how I make out.
    Pete "

    I asked if he had any 3rd party screensavers installed (and set active) and if he saw the same problem with manually selecting sleep (vs letting it go to sleep based on ES settings)

    Although most mails on 10.3.8 are from those reporting some sort of problem, many are not having any problems. Here's a sample of those mails (can't post them all as it would fill up this page, so I try to post reports on specific issues or improvements.)

    (added 2/15/2005)
    "Subsequent to installing the .8 update on my iMac G5: No hardware or software issues seem to have occurred. I used the "combined" installer and was surprised to find that the processor setting of "highest" remained intact. This was not the case when I updated from .6 to .7 and so when I checked I was very pleasantly surprised. As for everything else, so far so good - I'll let you know if I find any problems, but none to report so far.
    Regards, Don W"

    (added 2/15/2005)
    " H Mike. I just wanted to comment that the 10.3.8 update has been great for me and my dual 2.5 Ghz G5. My problem had been "thermal runaways" (reported in the console), which had frequently resulted in the system going to sleep on its own quite frequently, especially right after launching a new application(s), taxing the system, or extended use -- even in a relatively cool room. Simply put -- the fans weren't running fast enough or synchronized with the OS to prevent the system from going into some kind of protection mode or were reporting inaccurate CPU temps (my guess anyway; around 90 C threshold maybe?).

    My system now runs much cooler (5-10 degrees C) with far fewer thermal runaways and very little noticeable increase in fan noise. I'd rather have a little more fan noise than have my system go to sleep all the time! I know I haven't been the only one with this problem - so I'm sure there are a bunch of other 2.5 users who are happy too! I'm happy it doesn't seem to be a sensor or hardware problem.
    Thank you Apple. Finally!
    G5 2.5GHz, Radeon 9600XT, 1.5 GB RAM"

    Knock on wood my 2003 DP 2GHz (3.5GB RAM, X800 card) also hasn't had any problems w/10.3.8 that I have seen so far at least.

    Printing Problem: (not seen here)

    (added 2/15/2005)
    "Mike, over at the Apple discussion forums there are a lot of problem reports with printers and other hardware as a result of the 10.3.8 update....

    my Epson C84 is still not printing despite reinstalling drivers, fixing permissions many times, running Tech Tool Pro and checking everything, and also deleting any 'com.apple.print' files and rebooting..... please let me know if any new fixes pop up...
    regards, E.J."

    I'm printing OK in 10.3.8 to an Epson r300 on the powerbook and to a canon i900D on the DP G5 - both updated to 10.3.8 when it came out. Both are directly connected though.
    It may not help but I asked if he tried an old tip of disconnecting and reconnecting the printer? (tip for some usb devices with problems after an OS update)
    I've not checked epson's or canon's site for any driver updates in a long time but knock on wood printing is ok here in 10.3.8. I know that's of little consolation to those with problems though.
    I also asked if the printer directly connected to the mac. (My R300 goes to a tiny hub and then the PB, I used to have a direct connect but got tired of swapping cables). Last year I had the printer connected to the airport base and shared but after moving last fall I keep it under the desk now and direct connected.

    PB G4 Screen Flicker:

    (added 2/14/2005)
    "I've experienced this problem: Apple forum thread link
    After the 10.3.8 update and With the display set to automatically adjust with the ambient light, in steady light the screen will do somewhat of a slow flicker. Turn off the automatic adjustment and the flicker stops.
    I have a 15" PowerBook G4 1.5Hz, 1GB RAM
    Clair "

    X800 Fan Speed: The ATI ROM Xtender controls the card fan speed. I've not had a problem in 10.3.8 with fan speed (G5 case or X800 fan) on a 2003 Dual 2GHz G5 w/X800 XT I updated to 10.3.8 using the combo updater - but some reported they did. I wrote Bruno at ATI to ask if they had seen anything like that after the 10.3.8 update. Here's a copy of his original mail and several later replies:

    " We haven't.
    Unless their ROM Xtender file was damaged or removed (the file itself, the caches copy in the kernelcache or the runtime version in memory), there's nothing else in the OS that controls the fan for that card.

    I will ask someone to do various install tests - going from a working 10.3.7 to 10.3.8 with the card already installed, installing the card's drivers after the fact, etc.

    Tell your readers that if they're unsure as to whether any system update has damaged or removed any retail driver files, they should re-run the installer that came with the card. It will only install ATI Displays, the Rom Xtender and anything else that is NOT covered in the standard OEM set. It will not overwrite their 3D drivers or other files that are keyed to the OS/frameworks version.
    (he later wrote in reply to a reader (Ryan) saying his X800 CD wasn't the correct one and he needed the ROM Xtender installer-Mike)
    You can tell anyone who's looking for X800 installation drivers that they've been available on our website since the product was released:
    (I replied to Bruno that some may be leery of using that in 10.3.8 since the page notes it's for 10.3.6 Only. However their later installers are usually 'smart' and won't install drivers (just the ROM Xtender and ATI Displays 4.4.4) under later OS versions that have later drivers.-Mike)

    I will write to Ryan to find out what's up with his CD and card. BTW, I verified the ROM Xtender was working in 10.3.8 yesterday and the fan slows right down. Cannot hear the X800 above the G5 fans. Sometime this week I will use an external device to actually measure the RPM in 10.3.7 and 10.3.8 and will forward you the results. There is absolutely no API exposed to control the fan speed. No software other that the NDRV built into the ROM Xtender can adjust the speed. There are 8 different speeds which the fan can cycle through depending on chip temperature. If the case became hotter inside (due to G5 fan performance), it's conceivable the X800 fan would speed up. But this would not be a fault of the card nor its software. "

    Some readers said they'd tried that and it didn't seem to help, but for those with the problem it's worth a try. There's a few reader mails on this here - I asked they verify the X800 fan (not a G5 case fan) was the source since one X800 report there sounded exactly like a G5 owner's complaint on the system fan speed increase in 10.3.8 (i.e. he said just moving a mouse caused an increase in fan speed/noise).
    Here's another post Bruno sent that also claims it's the system fans not the X800 fan that most are hearing:

    " I own a July '04 dual 2.0, and have seen the (system) fan problem first hand.

    It's the U3 heatsink fan (at least the fan noise correlates with the temperature of that component as indicated by the shareware app Temperature Monitor). The fan is normally very quiet, but certain CPU bound operations will spike the temperature on the memory controller chip and cause the fan to go nuts (Seti@home is a great example in my case. It's so annoying that I had to stop running it). (Note that Apple's change doc on 10.3.8 mentioned a fix for fan behavior w/seti@home-Mike) It can be caused by seemingly non-intensive operations: highlighting text, dragging windows, and certain games also seem to trigger it (e.g. Civ3 and RRT3).

    The 10.3.8 update appears to have changed the fan logic somewhat (apparently they changed some of the controller gains or time constants), which make the issue different, but certainly doesn't fix it. Now the fan just builds to the fast speed a little more slowly, perhaps at a slightly lower max value, and then remains annoyingly loud for an even longer period of time than it did before.

    IMHO, the fan noise is either due to a bad calibration on this temp sensor, or some other issue with that version of the U3 chip (it's only been revised about 4 times since they shipped the first G5's).

    And FWIW, the original dual 2.0 that sits on my desk at work has NEVER done this.

    The fan noise is an Apple bug, and has nothing to do with our graphics cards. "

    I haven't seen any G5 fan speed problems with 10.3.8 with my 2003 Dual 2GHz model and some Dual 2.5GHz owners reported fixes in 10.3.8 for fan speed problems they'd seen previously - but not sure why some had the problem (I've had reports on that from 2003 and 2004 G5 owners).

    How to Test if it's the X800 Fan: To recap comments I've made in the past, if you think the X800 fan is the source, here's some things to check:

    • During a cold boot/powerup - the X800 fan runs full speed until the ROM Xtender loads (which controls the fan speed). If you hear the X800 fan lower in speed as the OS loads - then the ROM Xtender is installed. (Some thought the 10.3.8 update may have corrupted it or removed it - I do not see that problem here)

    • When I test for video card fan noise I remove the G5 side cover (metal) and tip out the plastic cover (don't remove it or the system fans will spin up to full 'fail safe' mode) and then carefully press on the center of the card's fan to stop it for a second to see if the card fan and not the system fans are the source.

    I mention the card fan test since some of the X800 comments I've had after the 10.3.8 update blamed the X800 fan but sounded exactly like complaints on G5 system fan speed increases from other readers after that update. (The past tip here of setting the Energy Saver performance option to "Highest" vs "Automatic" helped some that reported that problem, but not all.)

    (added 2/15/2005)
    "Mike, In regards to the 10.3.8 fan speed changes, I have a dual 2.5GHz Powermac G5 with an ATI X800 card recently added. I always have the performance setting in the Energy Saver Control Panel set to "Highest". When my X800 arrived, I installed it and loaded the drivers off the CD that came with it. Later, when 10.3.8 came out, I downloaded and installed it without repairing permissions or making any other changes (And the energy saver settings were not changed by the update).
    I have been playing World of Warcraft quite a lot and the only fan speed changes I noticed were that the CPU fans now seem to be a little more consistent. When rotating the view in WoW in the past, the CPU fans would occasionally spin up to high speed for 3-4 seconds and then spin back down. Since the 10.3.8 update, the fans do not seem to spin up quite as loud or as often as before but they do still spin up. As to the X800 fan, I can't say I have noticed any difference after the 10.3.8 update. I play WoW with the settings overridden in the ATI Control Panel to 4X multisampled Antialiasing and 8X ansiostropic filtering. Even with that extra processing, the X800 fan is still barely audible above the other fans in the system. I have not seen any issues waking from sleep with the X800 installed.

    The only other non standard additions to my system are a Western Digital Raptor 10,000 RPM HD, a Maudio Revolution 7.1 sound card and an extra 2.5GB of RAM but I would not expect these to be having any effect on fan speed other than perhaps generating a little more heat. Might also be worth mentioning that it is currently summer where I live in New Zealand and air temperatures are usually in the 24-30 degrees Celsius range.
    B.T.W, Thank you for all the hard work on the site, I've been a regular reader for many years now.
    Matt B."

    Thanks Matt.

    (added 2/15/2005)
    "Hi Mike, I bought a Dual 1.8 (June 2004) about a month ago (upgraded to 10.3.7 via software update as the OS that came with it was 10.3.4). Chucked in 2Gig of cheap (but not crap) RAM, and bought, received and installed ATI's mac edition X800 card. With no software install, the card ran loudly (as you've mentioned).

    The base installer package (on CD) doesn't offer options as to what gets installed (I thought it might allow me to install the ROM extender separately). I ran the installer and restarted, then before attempting to load the ATI control panel I re-installed the 10.3.7 combo updater (thinking myself to be the consumate 'clever guy').

    The result was the ATI control panel not recognising the card. It was however, running quiet at this point, so I assume the ROM extender was installed successfully.

    I reinstalled the ATI software, and all was well.
    (I ran that installer under 10.3.7 - it was smart enough to only install the ROM Xtender and Ati Displays 4.4.4 (prev. displays versions would not recognize the X800). Not had a problem w/10.3.8 so far.-Mike)
    I've had no problems since installing the 10.3.8 updater also. While my fan was running at Boeing 747 noise levels yesterday, it was more to do with the 40 degree Celsius, 95% humidity day we had. It may have also had something to do with the fact I played World of Warcraft for about 7 hours straight *heh heh*
    Thanks for all the info, I've been reading info from the site ever since I updated the graphics card on my old G4 400 years ago. Keep up the good work. :)
    Cheers, Tobes
    Western Australia "


    (added 2/14/2005)
    "I and at least one other user have confirmed increased fan noise with our ATI x800 video cards.

    My equipment is a SP 1.8 GHz Rev A PM, 2.5 GB RAM, and an ATI x800 video card. No strange Firewire devices or anything. I recently upgraded my hard drive and installed Panther one week ago, so this was on a 'squeaky clean' system. With 10.3.7 there were no problems and only in graphic-intensive programs would the x800's fans kick in. Now, post 10.3.8, the fan on the x800 is noticeable doing normal, non-intensive tasks, such as typing this e-mail, using Finder, or launching Firefox. The slightest movement of the mouse sends the x800 fans to slowly 'throttle up.'
    (the X800 has only one fan but that sounds exactly like the comments from a G5 owner on the system fans problem seen by some after the 10.3.8 update. (some but not all that had that problem said changing the energy saver performance option from automatic to highest helped - but it was not a universal fix for that problem.)
    When I test for video card fan noise I remove the side cover (metal) and tip out the plastic cover (don't remove it or the system fans will spin up to full 'fail safe' mode) and then carefully press on the center of the card fan to stop it for a second to see if the card fan and not the system fans are the source.-Mike

    I should emphasize that this increased noise is not loud per-se, but a change in pitch (fan speed) that oscillates as you work. It's very annoying. Repairing permissions and re-installing the x800 drivers from the ATI install disc have no effect. (the ATI X800 drivers on the CD and their website (currently) are not for use with 10.3.8. Hopefully the installer does not actually overwrite the 10.3.8 drivers and only reinstalls the ROM Xtender and Ati Displays 4.4.4.-Mike) Nor does resetting the NVRAM or PRAM.

    As I don't believe there are many x800s out in the retail channels (there are some - as I noted a week or so ago OWC had stock on the X800, but not sure how many have been shipped-Mike) I have a low degree of confidence that this problem will be resolved quickly.
    Don M "

    I asked Don if he hears the X800 fan run wide open at cold boot and then decrease in noise when the OS loads initially. If so the ROM Xtender is present and loading at least. I wrote Bruno at ATI to see if he has any idea why some said their X800 fan ran faster after the 10.3.8 update. (Although I wonder if it's the card fan or the system fans.)

    Another mail from an X800 owner on fan speed:

    (added 2/14/2005)
    "With regards to the X800 fan running full speed all the time, none of my efforts have succeeded. Reinstalling the software on the CD does nothing. Rebooting does nothing. Maybe I should revert back to 10.3.7 cause it was fine then. I have no idea how to do that though. I downloaded the update off apple's site, and it won't let me install 10.3.7 cause I'm running 10.3.8.

    Sorry I said 'fans', I meant 'fan'. All my other fans seem to be operating as expected. This computer would just be a whisper if that ATI fan would chill out some.

    Do you have any advice on how I can make sure the fan is being controlled by the 'Rom Extender'?
    Thanks for your help, Glen "

    If the ROM Xtender is being loaded, then as the OS loads at boot the X800's fan (which runs at full speed at cold boot) should normally throttle down as the ROM Xtender is loaded. As I remember I did not see it listed in Apple System Profiler's extensions (IIRC it's installed into another core driver.)

    PB G4 1GHz wake from sleep problem: (10.3.8 wakes from sleep ok here on a PB G4 17in 1.33GHz)

    (added 2/14/2005)
    "Mike, 10.3.8 seems to have created a wake from sleep problem on my 1 GHz TiBook. I have had pretty much zero problems with the TiBook up until this update, but immediately after updating to .8 it will not wake from sleep. In this condition the only way to get it back is to either hold the power switch down until it turns off or ctrl-cmd-esc restart. It happens on putting it to sleep manually or from inactivity.

    I also had my first kernel panic for many months when plugging in my Zio! to the USB after the update. (My kodak 6in1 reader still works fine w/10.3.8 but I don't have a Zio model.-Mike)

    I do not have any third-party "extensions" to the interface (dock, menu bar, etc.) - it's pretty much a "stock" machine.
    Machine Model: PowerBook G4 15"
    CPU Type: PowerPC G4 1GHz (3.2)
    Memory: 1 GB
    Boot ROM Version: 4.5.3f2

    I did the network update - not a download or combo, but I have never had any problems doing this in the past with this machine.
    (I asked if he'd tried the usual tips-Mike)
    Thanks for your suggestions. I already tried the combo updater/reset nv-ram/open firmware/trash powermanagement.plist voodoo and waved a rubber chicken around, but to no avail. There's a thread on Apple Discussions about this with a dozen or so posters, so this isn't a completely isolated case:
    (apple forum thread link)
    I haven't seen any other problems, at least... "

    I've not seen any problems like this here on 2 macs (including a PB G4) but there's always some reporting problems with literally any OS X update. (So many variables possible it's not easy to find the root cause.)

    10.3.8 fixes fan driver issue reported by Hardware Monitor

    (added 2/11/2005)
    " Mike, thought I'd let you know that Marcel Bresink's Hardware Monitor v1.4 now works with ALL PowerMac G5 fan sensors enabled under 10.3.8. (there was a warning with previous OS versions - see the notes I posted last fall on the Mac Nvidia 6800 feedback/tips page where the author of HW monitor commented on this (scroll way down to the Discussions on PCI Fan Control)-Mike)
    Here is a copy of my email to him & his response:

    (mail to Marcel, author of Hardware Monitor)
    Just wanted to let you know that Mac OS X 10.3.8 updaters were released today and after applying the update, your Hardware Monitor gave me a message on launch that stated that I could enable the disabled fan sensors because the problem in the operating system has been fixed! I enabled all sensors & all appears to be working great! Looks like Apple finally fixed the issue you told them about! Keep up the great work!
    George D.

    (his reply)
    thank you very much for your kind feedback on Hardware Monitor. I can confirm that Apple has repaired the fan drivers in 10.3.8. That's why I had prepared this message for Hardware Monitor 1.4. ;-)
    Thanks again for this information. Your support is truly appreciated.
    Best regards,
    Marcel Bresink"

    Unfortunately some G5 owners saw erratic fan behavior after the 10.3.8 update. I didn't have any fan speed problems on a G5 here w/10.3.8 and some other G5 owners said it fixed fan speed problems they'd had previously (Apple's kbase doc specifically mentioned this). The ES performance setting tip here (below) helped several that wrote originally with the fan speed problem, but not all.

    More G5 Fan Speed Complaints: (I and some others didn't see this problem but it's been by far the most common complaint on 10.3.8. The earlier tip on setting Energy Saver to Highest Performance (vs Automatic) that helped some readers with the problem originally is not a universal fix for everyone that had this problem.)

    (added 2/15/2005 from 2/14 mail)
    "Mike, Just to add to your database of G5 fan reports, I have a dual 2GHz G5 (Rev A) and its fan behavior has changed dramatically since the 10.3.8 update. Whereas before the fans would only spin up and down modestly in response to heavy loads (I leave the processor setting on Automatic, by the way), now they REALLY spin up and down. Even surfing the web with Safari can result in sudden loud surges by the fans followed by equally sudden drops. My wife says it sounds like the G5 is doing wheelies. J

    Changing the processor setting to ŌHighestĶ does seem to moderate the fan behavior somewhat, but I prefer to leave the processor setting on Automatic, since AppleÕs engineers say that is best. Personally, I think the fans sound cool when they spin up, so I donÕt mind, but IÕm sure some folks who had grown accustomed to the near-silent operation of their G5 would be annoyed by this change. Thanks for the best technical Mac site on the web!

    thanks. I leave my G5 on Highest Performance since I often use it for tests/reviews (like the graphics card reviews) and use that setting to ensure best performance. (Just to avoid the slewing done in auto mode, although when running a taxing app it should shift out of lower power modes.)
    The most common complaint on 10.3.8 by far here has been the fan speed... I wonder if apple will do an update to address that for those that have the problem. (Wish I knew the exact cause - I tried automatic setting here for a short while and didn't notice anything unusual on the 2003 DP 2GHz - running itunes w/visuals, browsing, etc. didn't seem to really ramp the fans up.)

    (added 2/15/2005 from 2/14 mail)
    "Unfortunately I cant give you very accurate signs about fan noise since I only had my x800 card one day before I updated. But my fan does ramp up for no reason, the cpu fans not the card. This morning while just checking email, the fans slowly got louder and louder, sounding like a jet engine with the fans running full speed, I had to restart to set the fans back to normal. I had changed the energy settings from auto to highest after the update since I was getting odd fan increases.
    Trevor H.
    Senior Graphic Artist
    Activision Value"

    (added 2/14/2005)
    "I'm a first time reader of your columns and was doing a web search for a problem I started experiencing after installing the 10.3.8 OS X update. I have a substantial increase in fan noise since installing the update and I can't seem to find where the problem is coming from (either the two front removable fans positioned by the memory modules or the power supply fan). I DEFINITELY did not have this problem with 10.3.7 and prior; trust me as I'm very adamant about fan noise. As a "Windows to Mac switcher" of less than a year ago, I have absolutely no idea what to do, as I am no Mac expert. My computer is a PowerMac G5 dual 2.0, purchased March 2004.
    Any recommendations or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
    George J.
    (I asked if he had tried the energy saver settings tip below posted last week that helped some with the problem-Mike)
    Thank you so much for your quick response!

    In answer to your question, yes - I did change the power saving settings as instructed in the suggestion responses of your columns. Actually, one of the first "tweaks" I do with a fresh install of OS X is to change the power saving setting from "Automatic" to "Highest". However, because of the issue, I went back and forth between the two settings, rebooted the computer, and ran both ways for a day only to find out that the change did absolutely nothing regarding my problem. Right now the setting is on "Highest" from running it on "Automatic" all day yesterday. Because I NEVER had this issue before (which, by the way, is driving me crazy) I have to say it is DEFINITELY from the 10.3.8 upgrade. I really don't feel like re-dong my computer, as I JUST re-did it two days ago (I usually re-do my computers every 6 months from scratch, as I have both a Mac desktop and laptop).

    If you have any other suggestions (of course without re-doing the computer and going back to 10.3.7), I would greatly appreciate it.
    Like I said, I'm a new reader of your columns and would like to say I'm very impressed with both the columns and your site in particular. Keep up the good work. Thanks again!
    George J.
    PS - I don't know if it matters or not, but here is my computer configuration - please keep in mind that I've had this configuration for a while with 10.3.7 and I never had an issue in the past with any of the components:
    PowerMac G5 Dual 2.0
    2 Serial HDD (RAID 0)
    OS X 10.3.8
    M-Audio Revolution 7.1 Sound Card
    4GB PC3200 Memory
    ATI Radeon X800 XT Graphics Card "

    Since he has an X800 card I asked about it's fan speed (is it throttling down as the OS loads - some complained the X800 fan was running faster after the 10.3.8 update.)

    (added 2/14/2005 from 2/12 mail)
    "yep, my fans are kicking on high for no reason on my dual 1.8 since updating this morning. energy settings at automatic.
    (I asked if he tried the Energy Saver tip-Mike)
    yes, highest performance power setting solved my problem. thanks.
    -Adam H. "

    (added 2/14/2005)
    "I have recently updated to 10.3.8 from 10.3.7 using System Update. My system is a G5 Dual 1.8Ghz Second Revision, 1.5GB RAM (512MB Apple RAM and 1GB Kinston) and upgraded firmware. I'm not running any additional 3rd party software, and I think everything is clean enough.
    Unfortunately, I'm also suffering the fan issue, specially when I surf using Safari. If there are several animated gifs the fans speed ramps up in a very noticeable way. This problem was almost the same with 10.3.7 but they weren't spinning that fast.
    Switching Energy Saver Mode (Options tab, Powerformance setting) to Reduced or Maximum fixes everything. (tip posted last week)
    But despite fans, I'm quite happy with the update. GeForce FX 5200 performance seems much better compared to 10.3.7
    Best regards and congratulations for your site,
    George "

    X800 Video Corruption after Wake from Sleep: (a few X800 owners reported this in 10.3.7 (I and others did not see the problem then or now - although I posted a note from reader that did before 10.3.8 was released that noted reinstalling the 10.3.7 combo update fixed it for him.)

    (added 2/17/2005 from 2/15 mail)
    "Just wanted to let you know that I also have the video corruption issue with my X800 in OSX 10.3.8 after going to sleep. It doesn't matter how long I go to sleep for either. Even if it's just for a second, once I bring it back up the green dots start showing up in a few seconds and keeps getting progressively worse.
    It happened in 10.3.7 as well, but only during 3D games. Now it happens all the time. As for my fan speed, it's no louder with the 10.3.8 update.
    Here's a running discussion about it on Apple's Discussion forum
    Mark A."

    (added 2/16/2005)
    "Just another report of video corruption issues after wake from sleep with a brand new Mac X800...

    Purchased the card brand new from Tekserve on Monday... Woke computer from sleep this morning and the video was all garbled. A reboot seemed to fix it temporarily. Here are my specs:

    Dual 2ghz G5, Panther 10.3.8
    Installed the ATI drivers that came on the CD with the card (the installer should only install the ROM Xtender and ATI Displays 4.4.4 if run from 10.3.7 and later-Mike) 2GB from apple store

    I'll let you know if I find a fix... I am going to try to download the 10.3.6 driver from ATI's website this evening. (that won't install or shouldn't - they note it's for 10.3.6 only. Later OS updates have later drivers than that install.-Mike)
    Keep up the great site!- Andre"

    I don't see this problem personally (so far at least, checked after the 10.3.8 update also). Not sure what to suggest but I might try reinstalling a 10.3.8 combo update.

    (added 2/14/2005)
    "Hi Mike!
    About the X800 video corruption problem.
    I had 10.3.8 on my dual G5 2.5 installed and then I decided to go for an X800. I Installed it, ran the 'X800 installer' on the CD and restarted. Then (because I remembered the problem) ran a 10.3.8 combo update (again) And let the computer to sleep.
    Today I have video corruptioon problems (many green and pink pixels flickering on the whole screen)
    so, the combo update to 10.3.8 did not solve the problem in my case. Sincerely, Dimitris "

    I have an X800 in my G5 - never saw the problem and still don't see it after the 10.3.8 update. Not sure why some did. (If anyone else sees this under 10.3.8 let me know.)

    Feedback on G5 Fan Speed/Energy Saver Settings Tip:
    An earlier post below from a G5 owner with the high speed fan problem said changing energy saver settings from Automatic to Highest Performance helped. I never saw the problem but the combo updater did not change my ES settings which were always on Highest Performance. (See above also for later reports on G5 fans.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "i just installed 10.3.8 Server update on my 2003 dual 2ghz G5. after reboot i also got the fan problem. i really found it annoying. after reading about the "put cpu to highest setting tip" i tried it ! and yes it also works for me ! fan speed seems back to normal. note: i had cpu settings set to automatic most of time.
    regards, jens"

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I too saw an increase in the fan noise on my G5 Dual 2GHz. And the Combo updater changed my setting to Automatic, (It didn't on my Dual 2GHz G5-Mike) and switching it back to Highest solved the issue of fan cycling up when the processors were under load, i.e. launching a new app or switching to a graphics intensive game like WoW.
    Craig H. "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "My setting was "automatic" and I'm pretty sure it's always been Automatic.
    Erik B.
    (I asked Erik if he tried the tip to set it to Highest)
    I've set it to high and haven't had it rev up since doing it despite having my processors hovering around 30-40% apiece (I'm viewing a live rendition of a PGA Tour event using Flash. See screenshot.
    http://nslog.com/archives/2005/02/10/1038_revs_my_fans.php "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I was experiencing the fan problem on a dual 1.8 machine after the update. I then installed the combo update and still experienced the problem. I then repaired permissions and set energy saver to Highest and have not had the fan problem since. (others reported repairing permissions alone did nothing to help - ES settings change did help however.)
    Thanks for the info!
    Matt E. "

    Speaking of repairing permissions - if this is really needed after updates Apple should either do that as part of the updater/installer automatically or at least note it in the readme/change notes. (I realize it's a common tip and only once have I personally seen it cause any problems but I've not RP after the 10.3.8 update on 2 macs, including a dual G5 and have not seen any problems so far.)

    This G5 owner said even cycling the ES settings helped:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Hi Mike, After update of my DP1.8 revB, 1.5Gb memory G5, I also had a fan problem.
    I repaired permissions before/after the update.
    Using the scrollwheel/slider in Safari it would increase the rpm of the fans. Checking the energy settings, the processor setting was still on high (unchanged) setting.
    I changed the setting to automatic and started to play around with the slider/scrollwheel again. This time I was able to rev the fans up much higher, and they stayed there for a few seconds. After that, fan rpm dropped to the normal level,and stayed there.
    Now I cannot reproduce it anymore, the slider/scrollwheel trick doesn't work. Safari behaves as I was used to in 10.3.7. Perhaps the fan controller needs to be 'trained' or needs to be taken to a certain level before it kicks in? (or just updating the prefs file (from the settings toggle) helped. I never saw the problem here with Highest Setting and never had to change it.-Mike)
    I am guessing here, but this works for me, and I hope it helps.
    kind regards, Han "

    This Dual 2.5GHz G5 owner said 10.3.8 helped with this fan speed control:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I have a G5/Dual 2.5 GHz. When I ran SETI@Home with previous versions the fans would continuously cycle on and off - extremely annoying. This was completely fixed with the 10.3.8 Update. My G5 was never so quiet like after this update.
    Regards, Gulliver
    (ES) was and still is set to "Automatic". "

    Like me, some G5 owners didn't have any fan speed problems after the update:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Hi Mike
    I'm running a Dual 2 Gig G5, (June 2003, MacAlley FW/USB Combo Card, Upgraded Pioneer DVR-107D, 2.5 Gig Ram, 2 HD's) and have seen no Fan issues after running 10.3.8 combo update through Software Update. On a side note, after being reminded by one of your reader's posts that repairing permissions would be needed I ran Disk Utility and on clicking "Repair" the fan kicked in immediately for approx. 15 to 20 seconds on medium speed, then dropped to idle. Coincidence?
    Brian L. "

    Not really - running RP just increases the system load - I've seen the fans spin up a bit here when doing it in past OS versions. Repair permissions does not fix this issue according to others that had the problem as they mentioned in their mails.

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "After the update my computer ramps up the fan under a lot less of a load than before. G5 duel 1.8 with 1.25 gig of Ram. I have not applied the June firmware 5.1.8 f7 update. I moved from 10.3.6 to this version using the combo updater from the Apple web site.
    Charles D."

    Again please include your Energy Saver settings in reports (many people using the ES settings tip email link but not commenting on their settings.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "hi Mike:
    I've installed 10.3.8 on a single processor (Rev. A) 1.8GHz G5 here at work, and it seems to be working normal. I haven't noticed any increased fan revving. The machine appears to be more responsive in application launching and web browsing (page redraws are nearly instantaneous, compared to the sluggish response I was seeing in 10.3.7).

    On my Dual 2GHz G5 at home, the install went well - but, like other readers have reported, the fans seem to kick in a bit too regularly, even when doing something as mundane as surfing the web.

    On both machines, I have used the stand-alone updater, and haven't repaired permissions before or after the install. Haven't tried resetting the NVRAM, as yet, though.
    Cartoonist, pcweenies.org"
    (I asked for his energy saver settings)
    On the single proc machine, I had the processor setting to 'Highest'. On the Dual 2.0GHz, I had the processor setting to 'Automatic'.

    I asked he try Highest on the dual and report back.

    10.3.8/Lightwave 8.2 Viewport Bug fixed?

    (added 2/17/2005 from 2/14 mail)
    " Hi Mike, Upgraded to 10.3.8 on a dual 2.5Ghz G5 with 6800Ultra and 3.5 GB ram and LightWave 8.2. The viewport display bug seems to have disappeared (fingers crossed). I tried several sample models of varying complexity and they all seem to be showing up ok.
    Another LW user at the Newtek forum says he still has the problem (he has a dual 2GHz G5), but it's definitely working ok in my rig now--wierd.

    6800GT owner Feedback:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Just wanted to let you know that I'm getting increased performance out of my (Nvidia) 6800GT. Call of Duty runs a lot smoother at 2048x1536, as do some other games. I can run some benches if you want.
    -PTCoakley "

    EyeTV Video Windows Black: (Updated)

    (added 2/10/2005 - updated 2/15/2005)
    "After installing the Combo 10.3.8 update, EyeTV 1.7 video windows (live and previously recorded) are black. I would imagine that this has to do with the OpenGL updates. Or perhaps the ATI updates. (I am using a Radeon 7000.)

    This is the only problem I have found so far.
    Jonathan J.
    (he later wrote a clean install fixed it)
    Hi Mike,
    After even more testing, culminating in a clean reinstall of 10.3.5 followed by combo updater to 10.3.8, the problem I was having with EyeTV/OpenGL/ATI drivers has disappeared.

    I am not sure why the problem appeared in the first place. I did verify the original 10.3.7 volume with DiskWarrior before the initial attempt to upgrade with the 10.3.8 combo installer. It is possible that one of the intermediate Radeon updaters from ATI may have contributed to the problem, although I can not offer any firm evidence to support this.

    The bright side? I was forced to bring my backups up to date. Win-win scenario...
    Jonathan J.
    Forgot to add:
    Beige G3 w/Sonnet G4 ZIF, 512MB RAM, EyeTV USB.
    Amazing that this old workhorse (7 years old) has kept up "

    Report on improved Diablo II performance:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I noticed improved performance in Diablo II: LoD after the update. Average game speed is about the same, but when there are many objects on screen, the game used to slow down horribly, now everything stays smooth. Good update!!
    -Lucas S "

    For the record I asked what his mac model and graphics card were. (please include system details in reports- thanks.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Heya. Installed 10.3.8 last night and all looks good -- definitely a smoother upgrade than 10.3.3 to 10.3.7 was! I have a SIIG ATA 100/133 card and an Audiophile 2496 MIDI/sound card; 10.3.7 initally had issues with both, much to my chagrin. No problems this time.
    From selecting a user (login panel) to display of screen is a little bit faster and I'd estimate overall system speed is probably up 4-5%. I don't do anything funky with my network (just OS X firewall behind a G3 which acts as a hardware firewall/filtering box/router), so I didn't notice any improvements there.
    Hopefully 10.3.8 will restore the 1600x1240 size for my new flat panel that 10.3.7 took away, but I haven't checked it yet.
    Tech writing/help/CBTs/WBTs/etc "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "unfortunately still no native support for the Pioneer DVR-108.
    greetings, Jako
    (I asked if he tried removing the Patchburn 3 profile to test for this.-Mike)
    first I installed 10.3.8 on my G5, then I removed patchburn3. after a reboor System Profiler stated 'not supported' for my DVR-108. after I re-installed patchburn3 the drive was 'vendor supported' again. "

    If anyone sees any new drive burn support, let me know. (If Patchburn3 or Lacie, etc. profile is present ASP will still show "vendor suppored" usually so remove the profile to test for native burn support.)

    G5 Owner reports on Fan Speed Increases: (Update:See later post above for feedback on the tip to change energy saver settings from Automatic to Highest Performance. One reader said even cycling the settings seemed to help.)
    I updated a 2003 Dual 2GHz G5 (w/ATI X800 installed and 2 HD's) using the Combo updater last night and I've not personally seen this problem so far. That system had the fan control firmware update applied (that was included in the Mac 6800 Ultra kit as mentioned in my review of the 6800). I didn't even run repair permissions before or after the update. (Which Matthew said his apple contact recommended.) I have Highest Performance set in Energy saver also.

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "After update I got the fan problem: I use to have dcnet crunching in background, with a Dual 2Ghz G5 CPU at around 55°C under 10.3.7.

    After update, temp lowered to around 46°C with fan speed increasing when load on CPU is heavier.

    Before I had a Max Performance CPU setting under Energy Ctl Panel. I checked the setting and the 10.3.8 soft update put it on automatic. Reverting to Maximum solved the fan cycling.
    Hope to help, Marc B. "

    Interesting - normally automatic setting results in lower fan speed (unless there's some issue with that in 10.3.8). I verified my ES settings were still at Highest Performance after applying the (combo) update on my DP G5 (fan speed OK) - but if any G5 owner that saw increased fan speed after the 10.3.8 update finds that helps, let me know. thanks. (See the later posts above for feedback on this tip - several G5 owners said it seemed to help.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Mike, I installed 10.3.8 hot off the download servers. Everything looked good with the exception of one flaw that was minor, but so annoying it induced me to revert to 10.3.7. After installing 10.3.8, my Rev 1 dual 1.8ghz G5's fans were ridiculously easy to provoke into going into wind turbine mode. Using MenuMeters and Temperature Monitor, I could see that temperature readings were not abnormal and the revving wasn't even reliably related to heavy spikes in CPU usage. Simply jiggling my scroll wheel up and down in a web page would send the G5's fans into overdrive every time if I kept it up for a few seconds, even though the CPU usage only rose to roughly 45%/45%. Simply launching an application that didn't raise a sound before could, but didn't always, kick up the fans into high gear too. All in all, it was unpredictable and grated on me badly since one of the reasons I love my G5 is for how quiet it is.

    Took the usual precaution of repairing permissions before and after the update. When the problem became apparent, I tried resetting my nvram using the open firmware steps, running the maintenance scripts, cleaning caches and the like, but while reseting the nvram seemed to moderate the problem slightly, it didn't go away and continued to pollute the air with noise. Now that I've reverted to 10.3.7 (archive & install, then updates), my G5 is purring quietly again. I can whip my scroll wheel up and down in the very same web pages to my heart's content and the fans don't kick up any more than one notch of speed. Hope there's answer out there somewhere or that Apple will find it and smooth it over. I really like the list of updates 10.3.8 offers.

    Rev 1 dual 1.8ghz G5, 2.5gigs of RAM, stock 160gig HD, stock GeForce FX5200 and Siig ATA card.
    -Leigh P. "

    I asked that if he tried the Combo Updater to let me know if that helped. I use the powerbook for most work but ran iTunes playback w/large visuals for instance and didn't see any real increase in fan speed. (And I have performance set to Highest in Energy Saver.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Just want to give some feedback. My Dual 2ghz G5's fans are cycling up and down much more than they did before 10.3.8. Before, they hardly every spun up, now they are going up and down much much more. There 10.3.8 thread on Macnn.com forums have several more Dual G5 owners who are experiencing the same thing.
    Thanks, John
    (I also asked John if he'd apply the combo updater and report back if it helped. Also asked if it was a 2003 (rev 1) or 2004 G5 model, just for the record.-Mike)
    This is a Rev 1 model. It has the stock Radeon 9600 card.
    I will try the combo updater tonight and see if that helps. "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "dual 2 ghz g4 - 3gb ram - 10.3.8
    fans were silent under 10.3.7
    fans now running at a constant low whir under 10.3.8
    anyone else having this problem? very annoying! hope they fix it.
    - drew
    (he later wrote)
    actually i did reinstall the combo update and the fans are still constantly in whirring away. no spikes like under 10.3.7 - but now just a steady "on" sound with occasional ramp-ups under heavy load. i too have an x800 and a rev.b dual 2 ghz machine.
    let me know what you find out - many thanks - drew
    a little more info for you regarding my constant louder fans: i have noticed when the screen alone is put to sleep that the fans quiet down to their 10.3.7 like whisper. the computer isn't asleep - just the monitor. waking the monitor sends the fan back up to an audible and annoying constant whir.

    i've not experienced any spikes though - which is working as promised. i used to get those when web browsing under 10.3.7 all the time for a few seconds here and there.

    so i guess this is apple's way of saving us from spikes...just cranking the fan all the time! there's got to be a happy medium... this has made my work much more distracting!
    cheers - drew "

    I have the same card (X800) in a rev 1/rev a (2003 first model) G5. Haven't noticed this problem. If I were him I might try resetting the NVRAM. (via OF boot - info in FAQ here) but nothing seems to be a universal fix for odd OS X update issues.

    Problem w/Spamfire:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I found a problem with 10.3.8 and Spamfire. If spamfire is running my PowerBook G4 DVI will not wake from sleep. I sent a note to the spamfire people.
    Ron P. "

    I asked Ron what version of Spamfire he was using. (Just for the record in case they update it soon.)

    Panther Cache Cleaner v2.4.6 Problems: (Update - there's already a 2.4.7 update to fix this.)

    (added 2/10/2005 from 2/9 mail)
    "Hi Mike Just installed 10.3.8 and Panther Cache Cleaner v2.4.6 will not run on it. If you try to launch PCC, you get the dialog box-"This application cannot run on this system(1038)"
    (I asked if he'd written them and to let me know if there was an update to fix this-Mike)
    I wrote them already. PCC has a feature that will launch apps at start-up for you. So, I launch ThermographX,Meteorologist, menu calendar-clock, etc. at start-up. That's how I knew it didn't work right away, 'cause you need a restart after the 10.3.8 update, and I got that dialog. I'll keep you posted.
    (he later wrote)
    Thanks, Mike! It definitely wasn't there last night when I signed off. Just got home from work and loaded it and it works fine. Thanks for writing back.
    Andy "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I installed 10.3.8 on my 1.8Ghz G5 iMac and on my Dual 2.0Ghz G5. Running Cinebench produced the exact same results as on 10.3.7. I was hoping to get some speed boost, especially after adding the ATI Radeon x800 card, which really hasnÕt been much of an increase in speed on my daily Cinema 4D work.
    Graham W.
    Silicon Daydream Productions, Ltd. "

    I'd run tests other than Cinebench (benchmark, not updated for a long long time and not very stressful of video cards as shown in the tests here.)
    I welcome other reports on apps (or game) before/after tests.

    ATI 8500 Owner Game Feedback:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I have a G4 466 with a Gigadesign 1GHz cpu upgrade. I have 1GB of ram and an ATI 8500 video card. It seems that my games (Nascar 2003, CCG, Tiger Woods) take longer to load and the video is choppier. My frame rate in Nascar dropped from around 80 fps to 30 fps. I need to get back to OS 10.3.7.
    -th3 "

    Anyone else see a reduction in performance rather than an improvement? (let me know and include system/video card and game details)

    Myst IV Fix: (for problem reported previously with some cards like the 6800)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Hello, It appears that 10.3.8 has fixed the problem with Myst IV. Just upgraded my Mac mini to 10.3.8 and can play this game properly without any crashes on this machine for the first time.
    Regards, Richard "

    If any 6800 owners running 10.3.8 own Myst IV let me know if you see improvements.

    Problem with uControl version 1.4.1 and 1.4.1:

    From a reader mail - I don't use Ucontrol personally.

    (added 2/11/2005)
    "Hello Mike!
    This guy fixed something in uControl. Works for me.
    (I asked for more info and he later wrote)
    It points to message with link to modified package of version 1.4.4. It's not "authentic", but works as I wrote before.

    As of today - the author of uControl released two updated pre-release versions of uControl too 1.4.5 and 1.4.6. For details you have to check check another link, sorry :)
    Regards, Andrey "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Mike, I installed 10.3.8 on my 15" AlBook (1.25 GHz, 2 GB RAM) and it seems to have broken uControl, which is a nice app for 'Book users. That's my biggest (and possibly only) complaint thus far.
    Usually, full releases break that app (10.2 did, 10.3 did) but not point releases. When I try to load the uControl extension, it asks for my password, then proceeds to not load it. Odd.
    Todd M.

    I am running uControl 1.4.4, btw. "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "10.3.8 breaks uControl (keyboard utility)
    (I asked what version and he said uControl version 1.4.1)
    15" pbook FW800 1.25GHZ 1.226GB ram
    great site- thanks, Ben K "

    Wake from Sleep/Ext. Monitor Improvements

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Mike, I just updated to 10.3.8 with no problems. I have a 1.33 Ghz powerbook. I was having issues when I would use my computer with my 20" Studio display while the computer was closed. Many times when waking from sleep after the monitor was removed I would get the black screen. When it did wake with no problems the screen would flash while adjusting. So far with 10.8 it seems to wake much more smoothly without any flashing. So far so good! "

    Disk Full (in error): (I updated a PB G4 with less than 2GB free OK) Update: a reader said that if Macally's iShockXDriver is installed in 10.3.8, it will flood the system log with errors until the drive is literally full. See his thread at iDevgames.com for more info. I wrote the 2 previous readers with this problem to ask if they had that driver installed.
    Update: a reader sent a note there's an updated MacAlly iShock driver that is supposed to fix this at http://www.macally.com/techsupport/drivers/iShockXDriver1.0.3.dmg.zip

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Ever since i updated to 10.3.8 it says my disk is full and i can't create or save anything. I am on an iBook g4 800mhz. I am supposed to have 6 gigs or so left. I repaired permissions but it still says i have zero kb available. When I get info on all the folders inside the hard drive it says 21 gigs so it's not full for real it must be a bug from 10.3.8.
    Stephane R.
    (I wrote to ask if the MacAlly driver was installed)
    yes I am, it creates a huge log file. I will uninstall the driver and then erase the system.log in the /var/logs/
    thank you for your help, xlr8yourmac really rocks!!! "

    Another reader replied he'd seen it also:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Disk full error: I'm also having the (startup) disk full error. A restarts resolves but just temporary. Itr really bugging me.
    it's looks like a memory leak or something like that. I've got, for sure, 4GB free, but after working a while on my mac, it's just getting less and less.
    G4 1.4Ghz 10.3.8"

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Well Mike, tonight I updated both partitions of my 1.5GHz 15" AlBook and they show no problems. Each seems to start up faster, as a matter of fact. The small partition, used only for maintaining the other, did experience two significant changes. Now when I start it up, it's automatically connected to my home wireless Airport network as it should be, an ability it mysteriously lost a few updates ago (while the large partition didn't). In another Mac mystery, checking Software Update after the small partition's update revealed an uninstalled Security Update from 9/16/04 (while the large partition, again, didn't need anything). That's about it.
    Bob F. "

    World of Warcraft Improvements:
    (BTW - Another performance note in past reports on the
    Mac World of Warcraft Performance reports page was the User Interface - if enabled (visible) there was a significant performance hit. Note one PB G4 17in owner there previously wrote that "turning off the interface via Option-Z basically doubles the framerate!". (Not sure if that's improved w/10.3.8's drivers - I don't have WoW installed.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I installed this update and ran World of Warcraft as as soon as I restarted. The game ran much better than before, at least +5FPS in my current system (G4 533Mhz, 512MB of RAM, GeForce4Ti, Revolution 7.1). Shader effects look the same but image quality is better than before. I upped the Texture detail to Max and it runs at least as fast or faster than before at low setting.
    Thats all I've tested for now!
    Good update, I'm happy!
    Ricardo C. "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Hey Mike, Just thought I would drop you a line and let you know that myself and a couple other mac users experienced MUCH better performance in WoW with the latest OS update.

    I run a 1.8GHz DP (G5) with 1GB of RAM and nVidia 6800 Ultra...
    Some of the other users run anything from a new iBook to higher-end PowerMac systems...
    Later, Nathan "

    Improved Windows Network Printing:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I just now downloaded the update and I can finally print to my roommate's Windows-box connected laser printers with zero configuration -- just a simple browse then name and password.
    Sweet, dave
    ( I asked if he was previously running 10.3.7, which was reported to have similar improvements.)
    I was using 10.3.7, before.
    My Specs: Powerbook 800, 1gig, 40gig, combo drive "

    PCI Radeon Quartz Extreme Hack Working Again:
    (As noted on the 10.3.7 feedback page, it broke the PCI Radeon Quartz Extreme mod. Tip for 10.3.7 there was to replace the entire coregraphics framework with a previous version.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Quartz Extreme over PCI works again, with the .plist hack. If anything it seems to be a little smoother. Beige G3/933, flashed Radeon 7000 64MB.
    Matt B.
    (I asked if he had done the coregraphics swap tip in 10.3.7)
    I had. I applied the combo update for 10.3.8, which would definitely have overwritten it. (I used the combo update for specifically that reason.) "

    Another reader mail with a note for those that previously replaced the coregraphics framework in 10.3.7:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Mike, I used Pacifist to re-install the the video drivers from OS 10.3.6 (reinstall coregraphics framework), as stated in the PCI Extreme message board to get PCI extreme to work with OS 10.3.7. Now with the OS 10.3.8 update, there seems to be a problem. I started to update to OS 10.3.8 but got an error in the middle of the extract. Seemed to be a kernel panic. I re-installed OS 10.3.7 complete and then updated to OS 10.8 with no problems. I then downloaded PCI Extreme and now my monitor is accelerated again. This update re-activated PCI Extreme!
    Hope this helps.
    Todd P
    Power Mac 9500; Sonnet 800 Mhz G4; 512 M RAM; 20 GIG HD, all SCSI; Orange Micro OrangeLink + USB + Firewire; ATI Radeon 7000 flashed from PC with 64 MB VRAM; OS 10.3.8 and OS 9.2.2. Appreciate the site much! Keeps me informed on updates for my updated antique! "

    Mini Owner note on Disk Utility Hang:

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I had an odd occurrence after using software update for the 10.3.8 client on my 1.42 Ghz mini. After finishing the update and restarting. I tried to run Disk Utility to repair permissions. Except it hung trying to find the drive. It just sat on the Gathering disk information... view.

    The only unusual thing that I did was use VNC instead of having monitor, keyboard and mouse. I went out to dinner and came back a couple of hours later and it was still hung. I forced quit Disk Utility, restarted and everything was normal after that.

    None of this happened on my other 2 machines though they both got the smaller 16 MB update and the mini got the 27 MB version.
    Jim B. "

    Any other readers see this?

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Hi Mike, I have a 1.5 Ghz Powerbook with the 128 Mb Radeon 9700. I just updated to 10.3.8 and right after my first boot, I notice a very perceptible zippiness to my system. Applications launch faster, mail is much faster, browsing my home network is faster, etc. Haven't had a chance to test out the new drivers on any games yet, but I did want to let everyone know that this update will provide noticeable differences in their computing efficiency.
    Thanks, Dominic "

    MDD Distorted Audio: (issue noted in the past OS X feedback pages.)

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Mike, I was hoping that the new OS update would have fix the distorted audio problem that started with 10.3.6, but after installing 10.3.8 and restarting my system, I still had the distorted audio.
    And I'm still disappointed with Apple's lack of attention to this problem.
    I have a PW Dual G4 1.25 GHz FW800 (Mirror door) "

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "Permissions need repairing as usual. Take a look.
    Matthew "

    This time I didn't run RP on either the PB G4 or G5 system. (no problems seen so far).

    (added 2/10/2005)
    "I and my friend installed 10.3.8 on our iBook's, sadly the eject button (F12) stopped working.
    (Strange - I asked if it's repeatedly failing (after a reboot or three) if so Maybe reapply the combo update. He later wrote-Mike)
    Yah, reboot fixed it =)
    cheers, svelo "

    I welcome other feedback on 10.3.8, let me know your experience with it.

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