|Apple BootCamp User Reports/Tips/Tricks and Tech Info|
Reports/Tips last Updated: 10/31/2007 (Expired Boot Camp removal)
Apple Support Docs Listing last Updated: 11/1/2007 (Boot Camp 2.0 Info/Troubleshooting)
FYI: This page is from 2006/2007, many links are no longer functional, including apple docs/SW updates.
Note: This page was for the Beta Bootcamp versions. For help/info on current BootCamp versions, see Apple's Boot Camp Support Page which includes links to an install guide, Boot Camp FAQ, Troubleshooting info, etc.
This page was originally created as a catch-all for info/docs/tips/feedback during the Apple "Boot Camp" public beta/trial - the beta/trial download was pulled in late Oct. 2007 after the official announcement of OS X 10.5 Leopard retail on Oct. 26th, 2007 which includes Boot Camp 2.0.)
To use Boot Camp, you need:
- An Intel-based Macintosh computer with a built-in or USB keyboard
and a built-in trackpad or USB mouse
- Mac OS X 10.4.6 or later
- The latest firmware update available for your Intel-based Mac
- At least 10 GB of free space on your startup disk (single
- A full, single-disc version of Windows XP Home Edition or Professional with Service Pack 2 or later or Vista
Important: Your Windows XP installation disc must include Service Pack 2 (SP2). You cannot install an earlier version of Windows and upgrade it to Windows XP, nor install an earlier version of Windows XP and update it with SP2 later...
- Boot Camp Assistant (will be installed in /Applications/Utilities/)
- A blank, recordable disc (to create the Macintosh Drivers CD)
Apple FAQs/Knowledge base Docs on (Beta) BootCamp: (these are 2006/2007 links before they redid the Kbase system.)
Nov 2006 EFI Firmware Updates: (Nov. 13th, 2006) Apple's released new EFI firmware updates for all intel cpu based Macs tonight. All have the same note: "This EFI Firmware Update fixes several Boot Camp, start up, and wake-from-sleep issues"
There's also a Firmware Restoration CD 1.2 update. (I've added the above links to the previous page of Reader Feedback on Mac Pro EFI/SMC Firmware Updates.)
If any reader finds these firmware updates help with any problems you had previously, let me know the details. Thanks.
Reader Reports/Tips/Important Notes: (later recd items first)
(If you've used BootCamp,let me know your experience or tips. Include your Mac model, BootCamp version used, etc. Thanks.)
Apple doc on removing Expired Boot Camp Beta partition from Tiger Installs (10/31/2007) For users that haven't upgraded to Leopard yet and run into this - Apple's posted a doc today titled Boot Camp Beta: Removing a Windows partition after Boot Camp Beta has expired in Mac OS X 10.4
"To remove Boot Camp beta after it has expired is to set the computer clock to a date before the expiration date (which was September 30, 2007) using Date & Time preferences.
Note: Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard includes the final release of Boot Camp, Boot Camp 2.0. Do not use these steps if you have upgraded to Mac OS X 10.5 and Boot Camp 2.0. Removing a Windows partition with Boot Camp 2.0 in Leopard is much easier."
"EFi 1.4 firmware update breaks ATI drivers in XP (possibly Vista as well) running under boot camp 1.4. Seems to be localized to 17" MBP's. Symptoms: Fuzziness in certain sections of display that have a light blue color or gradient. Also described as snowiness. External displays don't seem to be affected. Problems documented in these two
threads in apple's support forums.
kind regards, konrad c."
Bizarre... I asked if he'd tried updating windows display drivers (didn't help he later said, neither did Boot Camp 2.0 included w/10.5 per later posts in those threads).
Free OS X Utility to backup Boot Camp Partition:
I found a great freeware for a bootable Backup-Clone of your Bootcamp-Partition. Works with Windows XP and Vista. The partition has to be NTFS-formated. The best: It works from within Mac OS X - all you need is space for the clone-image. I save mine on an external Firewire-Storage. If you kill your Windows: No need to install the system, updates, tools and programs - just clone your working backup. Imaging-Tools like Norton Ghost or TrueImage are a nogo on Intel-Macs, cause these do not work with EFI (clones won?t boot) - but Winclone does! (and it's free)
- Clone Windows XP or Windows Vista with ease.
- Clone to your Bootcamp partition either on a separate drive or on the same
that contains your Mac OS X partition.
- Creates image documents that can be stored on any media and double-clicked to
open in WinClone.
- Verbose logging so you know what is going on
- Built on the open source ntfstools, which are included in Winclone, so you
don't have to install anything else.
- Fast: Restore a 10 GB image in less than 10 minutes.
- Create a Bootcamp partition from within Winclone.
- Do it all from the boot drive: You don't need to boot from a Firewire drive to
clone the Windows partition.
- Clean and uncomplicated interface
macmercy from Germany"
An older report here (9/18/2006) noted using Ghost 9 (not free) to backup an XP partition (but not sure about vista compat. or what the current version of ghost is - his post said Ghost 10 didn't work?) There were some comments also on using superduper IIRC, but that's not free either.
Feedback on BootCamp 1.3 Beta (XP and Vista users)
Just wanted to let you know that i completed a clean install of
BootCamp 1.3 with XP/SP2 using an update serial - no problems.
Following up with Parallels 3, i got it to run totally clean - no
issues at all using my BootCamp 1.3 installation.
Many props to Apple and Parallels for giving us such an easy time of
things... too bad its to run Windows, but i have to check
compatibility of my files.
(Just for the record, I asked Don for info on his Mac model)
Mac Pro quad 3GHz, 6 gigs ram and bootcamp partition on a Raptor 150GB, OS X boot drive (video production rig...)
On the 3d game part (Parallels 3.0)... Haven't tried anything yet - had barely enough time to get it running and try some simple things before bed. Oh... I did run Celestia (3d planet/galaxy simulator) and google earth... Both ran very well.
Totally unrelated... Motion 3 is absolutely sick. I'm actually panicing because the possibilities are now so limitless. The first time you pull that camera away from the video, and then you make it swoop past it?... Amazing... And all without rendering... Its quite a site to behold...
Another reader using Windows Vista didn't have as smooth an upgrade:
The 1.3 driver install STILL has the bug that cause a BSOD when it
tries to overwrite a previous version driver (1.2) while it's still
in use. Probably trackpad driver again although i can't be entirely
sure since BSOD wasn't very informative to a non windows super techie junkie. was using first gen macbook pro and windows Vista Ultimate 32 bit.
I had this VERY same bug in 1.2, i ended up having to clean install
windows that time. I hope I don't have to do this again. "better installer" is a lie
(he later wrote)
after reboot i ran install again and it worked. only thing I did
differently was unplugged usb mouse and used trackpad. I don't know
for certain if this was fix or just luck. Or that the first install
attempt did manage to overwrite the previous driver version even
though it managed to BSOD, so reinstalling again didn't run into
previous driver again. Too bad I can't test to see what fixed. Heh.
(and a later mail said)
Boot Camp 1.3 Driver Updates (and not so updated)
These only include drivers I could observe in my own macbook pro
install under Vista Ultimate 32
Apple Bluetooth, Date: 5/8/2007 ver: 22.214.171.124
ATI X1600 Radeom Mobility Display, NOT INSTALLED IN VISTA, still
using Microsoft's generic driver fro 8/21/2006, and ATI still only
offers XP boot camp driver. Still only possible to install this
latest driver from ati plus modtool as mentioned in previous post.
Apple IR Receiver Date 4/18/2007, ver. 1.3.09
Apple Keyboard 4/19/2007, 126.96.36.199
Apple Keyboard 4/19/2007, 188.8.131.52
Apple Trackpad 4/19/2007, 184.108.40.206
Apple Built-in iSight, 4/9/2007, 220.127.116.11
Apple Trackpad Enabler, 4/19/2007, 18.104.22.168
SigmaTel, 1/2/2007, 6.10.5337.0
Broadcom 802.11 a/b/g/n Driver NOT INSTALLED IN VISTA
Still Installs a very old Intel Chip-set driver set from 2006. VERY
disappointing that apple is still neglecting to keep all of the 3rd
party drivers up to date, they don't even make them, the least they
can do is package installers for them. No ati drivers to speak of for
Vista, and outdated intel chip-set ones, broadcom drivers not
installed (at least on an unsupported macbook pro with a swapped out
card, but even if they had been installed the ones packaged in
installer are out of date anyways by several months and versions).
SigmaTel Drivers I'm not sure if they are up to date or not, that's
less familiar hardware to me.
(Note: Reports/Posts below were before Boot Camp 1.3 beta was released (on June 7th))
ATI posts Boot Camp/XP Display Drivers and Control Panel (reader mail on June 1st)
Hi Mike, I don't know if anyone had mailed you this, but I was looking at the ATi
website today and I noticed that an option for downloading Bootcamp ATi drivers, they are listed as being published on may 3rd 2007.
http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/mac/bootcamp-xp.html (Display Driver and Catalyst Control Center)
(here's the supported systems list from the page, Macbook and Mini use Intel GMA-950 graphics, as does iMac 17in 1.83GHz model. iMac 24in uses Nvidia graphics.-Mike)
- iMac (Early 2006)
- iMac (Late 2006)
- MacBook Pro (15-inch)
- MacBook Pro (17-inch)
- MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo 15-inch)
- MacBook Pro (Core 2 Duo 17-inch)
- Mac Pro (when using ATI graphics card)
I wonder if they fix any of the xp boot image issues, etc. that happen
with mac pros and xp with dual monitors.
I'll let you know what I find out once I've tried them.
I haven't checked if these are later versions (or different) from their standard PC/XP releases. I don't own an Intel-based Mac but welcome feedback on these. (there were some posts from the past here on the subject.)
Tip for No Video at Windows Install w/X1900 XT:
I just returned home from college to find my new Mac Pro, including 2GB
RAM and an ATI X1900 XT. The monitor I'm using is a ViewSonic VA1912wb
(19" widescreen). We have no other monitors in our house that have DVI
I am using Boot Camp 1.2 (just downloaded today). All my software is
upgraded, and my firmware is upgraded (in the System Profiler, the Boot
ROM version matches the one listed on the Apple site, and it came that way).
I'm having the EXACT same problem as Eli. After partitioning my drive
and inserting the Windows XP disc (I've also tried it with Vista), I hit
Start Installation. The computer restarts, I see the gray screen, then
it turns black, my monitor comes up saying "No Signal (Digital)", and
then goes into Standby mode. If I turn it off and on again, I see the
same No Signal message before it goes back into Standby. I've moved the
DVI connection between the left and right ports on the Mac Pro multiple
times, and I've even tried different keyboard/mouse combos. Nothing.
Please let me know if any fixes are posted. Being able to use Boot Camp was key in my decision to buy a Mac
Pro, and if I can't get it to work, I don't know what I'm going to do.
(I asked if he had a CRT (VGA) monitor to try with the X1900 card using
a DVI/VGA adapter - as the DVI-I ports have analog video pins also. This
was a previous workaround for this problem-Mike)
Yep, I just recently tried it with a VGA monitor from downstairs, and it
worked fine. Now that it's installed, I can use XP with my monitor
(though, like many people on your site, I don't see the splash screen).
I've added this tip to the FAQ's intel-CPU Mac section also. I had previously written an ATI (Mac) contact about this when it first came up months ago, but it's still an issue even in the latest shipping hardware apparently. (I searched apple's bootcamp/support section and found nothing new on this - surely they must know about it. (Granted their official policy is no support for bootcamp/Windows but you'd think they'd at least have a note in some of their BC docs about this by now.)
MacBook Pro Performance problems with Win XP (fixed by XP Dual Core Hotfix)
A reader with a new MacBook Pro wrote he's had very poor disk performance with a fresh install of Win XP (using Bootcamp 1.2 beta). He suspected the onboard SATA was running in PIO mode although windows reported it running in DMA mode. He also mentioned performance problems with a FW drive as well, but I wasn't sure if it was a general issue or something he saw primarily when running Pro Tools, but I suspect the latter. (I was never able to get any benchmarks or additional details.) I asked if he had checked Windows Task Manager to see if anything was eating CPU cycles and if he'd benchmarked the system with something like Sandra (for comparisons to similar systems) or HD Tach, etc. - Friday I had asked if he ran a check for updates at windowsupdate.com and he said yes, but today he wrote the solution was a Windows XP (SP2) Dual Core Hotfix (released Dec. 19th, 2006) - I searched the web and found this Microsoft support page on it (KB896256) with a download of link for the hotfix:
"Computers that are running Windows XP Service Pack 2 and that are equipped with multiple processors that support processor power management features may experience decreased performance"
That article also refers to a support doc on gaming performance issues.
Earlier today (before getting the hotfix note) a reader replied to this post:
"I'm on my 2nd MacBook Pro - running Win XP under BootCamp 1.2 is a breeze, no performance issues (gaming, video editing, etc). Leaves my Dell d620 for dead...
(I asked Pat if the hotfix had appeared in windowsupdate (would be shown as a KB number typically) and if he had already applied it - checking Windows "Add/Remove Progams" control panel usually lists hotfixes/updates applied (often near the bottom of the list) as I don't remember any MBP owners complaining about XP performance in the past-Mike)
Didnt notice it going though on my macbook pro, but interestingly had to apply it manually to my dell... Performance was rubbish till i did. But still not a match for the mac.
as an aside, i run parallels too, with a vanilla build of xp. And that runs sweet...
Regards, Pat C.
Although I was never able to get more details from him, I suspect he primarily saw the problem when running Pro Tools as his main complaint was choppy disk/streaming performance. (Which is why he kept insisting that it was running in PIO mode, despite windows reporting DMA mode.)
"Hi Mike, Previously I was one of the MBP users who had trouble with Boot Camp
and the MBP's trackpad - particularly issues with two finger
scrolling, and two finger right click. There was speculation with a
correlation with the WWAN update, but I don't think anything concrete
came of that.
I know this is about two weeks late, but the Boot Camp 1.2 updated
drivers has since solved any trouble I had with my MBP's (Core Duo)
trackpad. It now does two finger scrolling, and two finger right
click in XP with no problems.
Problems connecting to N Bases w/Win XP: A reminder that apple has a support doc titled Boot Camp Beta 1.2: Windows XP (SP2) unable to connect to 802.11n wireless router or AirPort Extreme (802.11n) Base Station that includes a link to a Microsoft Hotfix for the issue. However a reader (Chris) said his MacBook still can't connect to his Airport Extreme N base on the XP side. He had installed Broadcom adapter N compatible drivers and followed an earlier tip on configuring here:
"Settings in xp driver
Go into device manager. Choose broadcom multiband adapter with a right click then go to properties. Then go into advanced settings about half way down. The driver is usually in default b or g only mode on "xxxx mode" setting change it to a b g n auto so all bands are enabled or all you will get in xp is b and g mode
"I have a Mac Pro 2.66/2GB/X1900/Airport/BT with 3x500GB and 1x250GB
Hard Drives. I have been running XP Pro on a second hard drive
through Boot Camp with no problems at all... until the latest
Bootcamp upgrade last week. (v1.2 Beta)
Now, when I select the OSX startup disk from within Windows it boots back into Windows.
I think that either the startup disk selection control panel is at fault or the MBR of
the Bootcamp partition (or however it works) is at fault. As I use a
wireless keyboard, I do not seem to have the option of pressing the
alt to select another boot drive, therefore the only option I have
left is to put the install disk into the CD and select the startup
drive from there - a process taking about 4 minutes (or go out and
but a USB keyboard).
I have repaired permissions and all the usual things that I try first when I have a problem. I have posted on the
Apple discussion boards and it appears that this is affecting other
(I asked if he had a USB keyboard just to test using Option/Alt key at startup to
switch boot OS's. I.E. Leave OS X as the startup disk and then just use the
Alt/Option key at boot when you want to restart into Windows.-Mike)
Brought an old ropey USB keyboard home from work and the ALT/OPTION
function works. I can select to boot to OSX and it works fine.
Looks like I will have to use this keyboard until the next beta (or
Leopard) is released.
I had a couple other BootCamp 1.2 users say they had seen the same problem.
"I Install Bootcamp 1.2 this afternoon in our customer Mac Pro unit
and gets the same problem. If I choose to boot using OS X in windows
control panel it keep booting back to windows.
I thought that I did something wrong but after reading another user
in your website then I came to conclusion probably the problem is in
the MBR partition.
The only way to boot back to OS X using USB keyboard and pressing alt/
option key and choose OS X partition.
And another reader that suggested using the Alt/Option key at boot when you want
to boot to Windows, therefore keeping OS X as the default startup disk.
"same problem here- booting to OS X using the alt-key works, and after
that you can set the startup disk in os x to your os x partition, which
works too. Until Apple fixes this, I now just boot to windows using the
OS X restart command and then pressing alt to temporarily select the
windows partition. A normal reboot in windows then simply returns to OS
X... trivial but helpful :)
"Boot Camp 1.2 BSOD
My iMac 17" ATi, 2 gb RAM, 10.4.9 / XP SP2 has a repeatable issue
after installing Boot Camp 1.2. I get the Blue Screen of Death when I
restart following an installation of the XP / Boot Camp drivers.
Windows will report a driver problem after repeated attempts. One of
the reports mentioned the video card driver.
I also have Parallels installed. Parallels uses the Boot Camp
partition without the BSOD but when booting Windows will report a
"major problem was repaired."
I believe Parallels removes its drivers during shutdown but perhaps
the problem is between the virtual machine drivers and those
installed by Boot Camp.
"Hi Mike, I am using an Apple USB keyboard on my MacBook C2Duo. After updating
to Bootcamp 1.2 it would not initially work when I booted into XP.
The built in keyboard wouldn't work either. My Mouse still worked.
After rebooting a few times I got it to work after windows ran a
diagnostic routine. I then got the Windows Genuine message that my
copy of Windows had exceeded the number of installations. This is has
happened before after I updated the Wireless card to Wireless N. I
had to phone MS and get a new installation code as my hardware had
(I ran into that once with Win XP on a Homebrew PC a couple years ago (before they released that 'genuine advantage' or whatever they call it addon via windowsupdate.com). After upgrading the graphics card, adding more RAM (IIRC) and then later just simply moving the Wireless card to another PCI slot 'tripped' (exceeded) the # of changes check apparently, although it was the Same Wireless card, same MAC address, etc. but using a different IRQ/redetected at boot after the move). I had to call Microsoft to get a new (mile-long) string to enter...-Mike)
Things still seem to work fine if I run in Parallels Desktop.
Apple has a BootCamp 1.2 doc on Keyboard does not respond during Windows installation that comments on keyboards connected to DVI displays, etc.
Initial Boot Camp 1.2 update (w/Vista) problems with Bluetooth keyboard/mouse
Mike, BootCamp 1.2 has a strange problem when I updated to it last night.
Mac Pro 2.66 running OSX 10.4.9, Bluetooth Mouse and Keyboard.
The Mouse and Keyboard were the issue's at hand with me. Upon creating the drivers disk with BC 1.2. I booted into Vista Business Edition and installed the drivers. I had already been running Vista with no real issues except not being able to boot into OSX easily.
After installing the drivers I rebooted and Vista "lost" my Bluetooth
Keyboard and Mouse, which were working before the upgrade. I tried and tried to get them to connect to the Mac Pro and no luck. I resorted to a USB Mouse and Keyboard and they were recognized right away.
I then began to manually install the BT Keyboard and Mouse and got the Mouse installed but the Keyboard would NOT install!
I then applied the drivers again and then tried like five times and finally got the BT Keyboard to install. I went to the Apple Discussions and found numerous related problems.
Just a FYI for others. Everything works now.
I think it's a good idea to have a std USB keyboard and Mouse handy for times like this. (FYI - There's a list of Apple Boot Camp 1.2 related support docs above including one on keyboard not recognized during install if it isn't connected directly to the computer and another on Installing Windows Vista on a non-startup disk in a Mac Pro)
NOTE: reports below were Before Boot Camp 1.2 Beta was released
Bootcamp/Win XP Drivers for Broadcom chip 802.11n cards (FYI for 802.11n Mac users including Core Duo Macbook/Pro, Mini and iMac owners that swapped in a Mac Pro N card or Dell 1500 card)
Hi there, I just wanted to add another success story to the batch. I'm using a MacBook Intel Core Duo (not Core 2 Duo) 1.83Ghz. Installed the N enabler beforehand, did surgery on the MacBook, (swapped in a Dell 1500 N mini PCI-e card), turned it on and voila, N capability reported in Network Utility. (If it's not reported as N, remember to install the Airport Extreme 2007-001 update from Jan 07)
Everyone is right about the better performance of this card in comparison to the original (better reception, etc).
I can also confirm this card working under Windows XP. I downloaded the supplied drivers from Dell's support website although it involved a little trickery. Select something like the Insprion 9400 as your model and download the network drivers. When I installed, it unzipped everything into a folder and then tried to run an installer which failed saying "Unsupported hardware" because I wasn't really using a Dell laptop. All you have to do is install the drivers manually as they are already unzipped for you. Easy.
Just wanted to let everyone know, as I haven't seen any reports of Windows XP stories with these cards in a MacBook.
I had forgotten to post it but another reader that did the swap had previously sent a note/link to WinXP 802.11n drivers for the Mac Pro (and Dell 1500) broadcom chip based card. (Frederic last month mentioned these were broadcom 4321 aka bcm94321)
I solved the problem. All the (Windows) drivers for the bcm94321 are b/g only. If you download from a third party site you can find the driver for bcm943xx it will work and gives you Broadcom's wireless connect
utility which is much nicer that Windows utility. Windows update did
nothing, all it would do is enable a/b/g.
Thanks for responding (He originally asked what was the broadcom chip ID for these cards.
I asked if he'd send a link to the drivers he used-Mike)
I believe this is the one that I used. (www.x-drivers.com/component/option,com_remository/func,fileinfo/id,9957/) Hope it helps others.
"One well known issue with installing Win XP under Boot Camp is that
the apple CD/DVD drives can't manually eject a CD part way thru the
installation. This fact precludes the use of an Win XP upgrade CD,
because one must insert a Win 98 or other qualified product part way
through, to enable the upgrade to work. Inserting it into an external
CD drive is reported not to work (although I personally haven't tried
it). (I thought a reader had said that worked before but maybe I'm wrong. Slipstreaming to create a SP2 CD,
for added drivers, etc. has been mentioned by readers before here (in older reports below)-Mike)
The solution I am suggesting will solve either or both this problem
and the problem of having an old Win XP install CD (w/o SP2). You
need to download the free "Autostreamer" (google for it) to
"slipstream" the SP2 onto a new installation CD or DVD.
Run Autostreamer (AS) on a Windows PC or under Parallels on your mac.
Insert your Win XP install CD and AS will detect it. Download the
network SP2 from Microsoft here:
and save it somewhere you can find it. Point AS to it. Then check the cusomization box on the bottom of the first AS screen and proceed. AS will pause before creating an ISO image, allowing you to navigate in Windows Explorer to the temp directory that AS created. Eject your Win XP CD and insert your Win 98 (or other qualifying) CD and copy over the Win98 and Drivers folders to the temp dir (probably analogous folders for Win ME or Win 95). Then let AS create the ISO image. It will "slipstream" the SP2 and incorporate the extra Win98 folders. Burn the ISO image to DVD (it is a little too big at this stage for a CD; about 870MB). I simply saved the ISO to a shared folder under Parallels and used Toast to burn the image under OSX. But you can just as well burn it in any number of ways (Nero on a PC, etc.).
Use the DVD as your source under Boot Camp. When Win XP complains it needs to see a qualifying product's CD, just hit RETURN and it will find the Win 98 folder that you included in the burn, and it will proceed with the installation of Win XP.
I moved my Win XP license from a retired PC and Microsoft telephone activation accepted that as just fine. Also, if you explain you are installing on the same Mac under Parallels and native, that is also fine. MS will let you activate it twice. But you have to do it over the phone. I did it one at a time, a few weeks apart. When I explained the situation during the second activation (native), the MS guy confirmed after checking with a supervisor that I had the right to run either under Parallels or native since they wouldn't be running simultaneously.
A few other helpful hints: Drive Genius's fomatting of HFS+ is not compatible with Boot Camp because it does not include the EFI partition (yet; I've complained). So I used Drive Genius to back up my whole drive to an image file on a network volume (I had 60GB on an 120GB disk to back up; Drive Genius insisted on creating an 120GB image. Not as smart as SuperDuper or Carbon Copy Cloner), reformatted with Apple Disk Utility, and then restored everything from the image with SuperDuper (Drive Genius wouldn't let me restore because the image was now slightly larger than the main partition created by Disk Utility because Disk Utility reserved a few MB for the EFI partition). Then I was finally able to run Boot Camp.
You won't run into this problem if you never reinitialized your drive. I ran into it because I replace my orig drive with a 120GB one and accidentally formatted it with apple_partition_map instead of the GUID partition scheme (didn't prevent Macbook from booting so never noticed until I tried boot camp). So I used Drive Genius for the backup, reinitialize (with GUID scheme), and restore, only to find Drive Genius left out the EFI. So I had to go through the above with Disk Utility and SuperDuper.
Hope that helps! - Paul
"Hi Mike, I installed the new EFI firmware update for my MacPro (3.0 Ghz Quad, 2 GB RAM)
Looks like this update also fixed a problem with Parallels - after a boot, you used to need to put your MacPro to sleep for the virtualization to work (Parallels
would spit out a message saying so). Just booted back from Windows,
and no problem launching any virtual machines now - don't have to
sleep the machine for it to work. (hopefully that's really fixed - some others thought it was in the past but later said it wasn't.-Mike)
I have the ATI X1900 video card and a 23" ACD (the older ADC version with an Apple ADC-DVI adapter). Now when I boot to WinXP, the VGA screen - the "Windows XP splash screen" - comes up during the boot.
Before I had no picture until the hi-res graphics kicked in. I had
to install with an old CRT monitor attached - I'll bet that's fixed too.
Interesting - we'd assumed an X1900 card firmware update would be needed to fix the problem of no video during WinXP boot with X1900/23in Cinema Displays. (Common problem with that combo mentioned here previously.)
If any Mac Pro owner with a DVI (Alum) 23in Cinema Display finds the firmware update helps with the no video during WinXP Boot let me know. (Also if you've not updated the Mac Pro fimware yet, take a note on the ATI X1900 card's firmware version also before and after. (From the description it shouldn't be changing that but just wondering...)
(Note: reports below are from before the Nov. 13th, 2006 EFI firmware updates for Intel based Macs were released)
"24in iMac with 2 gigs of ram, 256 MB Nvidia GeForce 7600 GT, built in
1920x1200 LCD monitor
Everything works perfectly. Installed XP SP2 with no problems. No
installation problems whatsoever. No stability problems on the Mac
or PC side. Graphics work very well from both OS's. Full 3d support
in XP, runs Company of Heros with all the eye candy, runs everything
3dMark 2006 throws at it. Having a wired actual Microsoft USB
keyboard probably helps. But my wireless (not bluetooth - just a USB
dongle) Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer 2 works perfectly as well.
I had heard earlier (before Bootcamp 1.1.2 was released) that some 24in iMac
owners had some problems with no video at WinXP install CD boot (like the X1900/23in Cinema Display users).
(added 11/8/2006 - before Nov. 13th EFI firmware update released)
"Mac Pro, ATI X1900, 23in ACD, some success
Hi, I just wanted to report a couple of things that I have found. First, I also came across the difficulty in installing XP with the 23in ACD. (No video) I unplugged the ACD and plugged in an old NEC CRT boat anchor. Bingo, worked all the way through. Then I downloaded the Catalyst drivers from ATI and put them on a flash drive and installed them. I then plugged my ACD back in and bingo...no problems. (but still no video during WinXP boot phase right?)
So I can confirm the problem that others have had with this video card and ACD during bootcamp install. Also, I still have a problem sometimes with the ACD staying black when rebooting from OS/X into XP. (It stays black anyway through the XP boot until the X1900 card kicks in and the desktop turns on) I found that if I unplug the ACD and plug it
back in, bingo. Always works.
On more point. I have some problems with the Wireless BT keyboard being recognized in time to tell either OSX or XP that I am holding down the alt/option key for the dual boot choice. So, I plugged in a USB keyboard and it works now. The BT keyboard was working great, but it is not recognized that early in the boot process. I hope they fix that!
"Mac Pro and Gforce7300 - Latest update 8 Nov 2006
Thank you for publishing my previous comments on the bootup issues with the Mac Pro and a GForce7300 card. Here is the latest update on my discoveries after more extensive testing.
Firstly thank you to that other reader that published his very comprehensive description of his attempts to get his 23" ACD using the X1900XT card. It gave me a few ideas which eventually helped. Here's the detail.
After reading the other reader's excellent notes submitted on 6-Nov-2006 concerning his detailed testing of different combination to get his 23" ACD to work, I decided to try two things that he mentioned. Firstly, I moved the DVI connector from my 21 Viewsonic LCD from the right DVI port (as seen from the rear of the Mac Pro) to the left port as he seem to imply that it was the primary port and secondly, I replaced the standard, but non-apple, 2 button mouse with the one button(?) mouse that came with the Mac Pro and plugged it into the USB connector on the front of the computer.
I actually managed to get through and setup Windows, install the Mac drivers and the Windows Viewsonic driver (although it wasn't needed because the nVidia driver from the Mac driver disk could get the relevant resolution information from the screen). I then rebooted (fingers crossed) and sure enough while the screen was blank during the initial Windows boot process, eventual up it came with the Windows splash screen and loading indicator and then the welcome menu. After testing the functionality of the network and internet, installing a USB HP printer & driver, plugging in and checking a combo USB/firewire hub, and a few applications and playing around for a bit and checking as much as I could, all appeared to be working well and stable except that device manager is reporting that it needs the Intel(r) 5000 Series Chipset PCI Express x4 device drivers. This was already common knowledge so I left it for later as it was not needed at this stage
and it didn't affect the exising Windows functionality and stability.
Finally, I did a shutdown and reboot, and after a brief period with a blank screen with some hard disk activity noise, up came the Windows splash screen and a successful boot.
I now tried replacing the apple single button mouse with the 2 button mouse while Windows was running and it work fine. However, after attempting to reboot with it still plugged in, I was back to the same old original scenario of blank screen and a failure to boot up. Unplugging the 2 button mouse and replacing it with the apple 1 button mouse had no effect on fixing the problem. Eventually I discovered, that by unplugging the DVI connector from the back and the re-plugging it back in, I was able to get back to my reliable bootup sequence with the 1 button apple mouse.
After much further testing, including trying another 2 button mouse from a different manufacturer to no avail, my conclusion is that there is something REALLY flaky with either the bootcamp BIOS emulation or USB harware implementation that stuffs up the detection of devices, eg keyboard, graphic card, that prevents the initial boot process from proceeding when a 2 button mouse is connected. This might be timing related, but this is only a guess.
It also appears I might have a similar boot up problem when there is a CD in the optical drive but more testing is needed to confirm this.
"BootCamp w/Mac Pro ATI X1900 XT and 23in Cinema Display
Yes, I have the identical problem with XP-SP2, Boot Camp 1.1.2 and a blank screen on install XP with my ATI X1900 and 23" Cinema HD display.
It is a disaster if I can't make it work because our most expensive software, Maya, was to reside on the XP side due to our licensing. Now I have a Mac Pro for Word Processing!
I don't know what this 'slipstream solution' is. I have an XP-SP2 disk already and all the web instructions are about adding the SP2 to XP. (there are older notes/links below on this, the last slipstreaming tip was for drivers to fix the PIO (slow) mode with onboard SATA in Mac Pro in WinXP. I don't know of any fix yet for the X1900XT/23in ACD display no video at Windows Boot (which is a show-stopper for initial installs)-Mike)
Please let me know if someone found a real solution to this.
Maybe you can borrow another display to use for installing Windows.
(the only solution I know of so far for those w/23in ADC display that do not have any mac pro
graphics card to use other than the X1900XT) If you've already installed Windows XP and
still have problems with the X1900/23in ACD, did you install updated ATI drivers
(from ATI for WinXP) - and maybe try WinACD? (linked/mentioned below in earlier posts here)
"Mac Pro PROBLEMS installing Windows with bootcamp 1.1.2
Having absolutely no luck installing Windows XP SP2 on a basic Mac Pro
configuration - 2GHz, 1GB apple Ram, apple keyboard, apple GForce 7300
video card, 2 button (non-Apple) USB mouse. Running lastest OSX
updates 10.4.8 with latest EFI and SMC firmware updates. Using
bootcamp 1.1.2, I can partition disk and burn the Mac drivers but when
I click the install button and the system restarts to do the windows
install the screen stays blank and I ocassionally get a small no video
message on the LCD screen (a 21" Viewsonic VX2025 connected via a DVI
cable to the video card output on the back of my Mac Pro).
Doing a manually restart (holding the option key down and selecting
the Window CD drive to boot from) and then tapping the keyboard a few
times will sometime bring the screen back and allow the first stage of
the install to start.
I can then format the C drive (I use FAT not NTFS format) and the
install then proceed to copy all the Windows necessary file to the new
However, after all the files have been copied when it attemps to
reboot, I am back to the blank screen and no video and tapping the
screen soesn't seem to do anything.
It is really upsetting as I tested bootcamp on a loan MacBook Pro 17"
(just before the Mac Pro's were released) and it installed and ran OK
and on that basis decided to give the Mac environment a go while still
being able to run my Windows specific programs.
I have tried parallels for Mac and was involved in their testing to
get the product running on the Mac Pro but their lack of proper
working USB functionality is what prevents me from using what is
otherwise a really great product.
"I'm new to Boot Camp, having got my Mac Pro just a couple weeks ago.
So I'm able to report on a fresh install using Boot Camp 1.1.2.
My setup is a 2.66 GHz Mac Pro with 2GB memory and a Radeon X1900XT
graphics card, with a 23" HD Cinema Display with an ADC connector.
Having been forewarned (thanks to your site) about the issues that
occur when the Radeon card is driving the 23" ACD, I replaced the
monitor with the 20" Cinema Display (DVI connector) that I usually
use with my MBP for the installation. I connected both the USB and
Firewire leads from the monitor to the Mac, and didn't bother to
disconnect the Ethernet cable or the USB cable from my APC SmartUPS.
I applied the EFI firmware update prior to installation. It was not
necessary to apply the SMC firmware update, as that was already in
place when I purchased the Mac Pro.
I installed Boot Camp and Windows as per Apple's instructions,
dividing the HDD into two equal partitions and using the slow format
option. I used an OEM disk with SP2 that the retailer sold me with
the Mac. Long story short, the whole process went very smoothly.
There was a bit of a hiccup during the driver installation routine,
but everything seemed to get where it needs to be in the end; I did
run the installer a second time, just to make sure. Then I updated
Windows and installed the trial download of Norton Internet Security.
Everything seems to be working just fine.
I'm not using the Mighty Mouse that came with my Mac Pro, so I can't
comment on that. (I have a little Microsoft mouse that I prefer; I'd
be surprised if Windows had a problem with that!) The hard drives
seems to be operating at its usual blazing speed, so it seems that
problem is licked. Is there anything else you'd like to know about?
My next job is to try to get the 23" monitor working. I'm thinking
about connecting the monitor with Apple's default video drivers first
to see what happens. I'm also planning to download WinACD and
Catalyst if need be. Please let me know if you'd like me to try doing
things in a certain order; if I can help you clarify what things need
to be done and in what order, I'd be glad to oblige. Thanks as always for maintaining a great site!
(he later wrote)
While booted in Windows I verified that the brightness controls on
the 20" ACD (Apple Cinema Display) were working. Then I shut down, connected the DVI on the
23" ACD to the second DVI port (the one on the left, as seen from the
rear of the machine), but left the USB cable off, and booted into OS
X to verify it was operating properly.
At this point I discovered something I never knew before: if you
connect an ACD without the USB cable, OS X doesn't raise a fuss, it
simply doesn't display the brightness slider in the Monitor control
panel! Those folks at Apple are clever, eh?
When I booted into Windows with both monitors attached, the 20"
display showed the Windows boot screen as normal, and the 23" display
stayed black. As soon as the Radeon drivers kicked in, however, the
display lit up and suddenly the 23" was acting as the main display.
It had been resized to the same resolution as the 20" display
(1680x1050, 32-bit), and was identified as number one. This leads me
to believe that the left-hand DVI port on the X1900 (as seen from the
rear) takes priority over the right-hand port.
I restarted Windows a few times, shut down and started it cold, and
switched back and forth between Windows and OS X, and the display
worked just fine. It remained black throughout the Windows boot
sequence, but it always came on when the Radeon driver kicked in.
(Oddly enough, the Windows boot screen continued to display on the
20" monitor even after the Radeon driver made the 23" the main
display, so it looks like the 23" just isn't getting recognized prior
to Windows boot.)
So I removed the 20" display, then moved the DVI cable for the 23"
display from the right port to the left, rebooting Windows each time
to test. The 23" display continued to function as before: black
through boot, then popping on when the Radeon drivers kicked in.
In the midst of this process I noticed that the brightness control on
the 23" display (there is only one, as it is an old ADC monitor) did
not work. I installed WinACD 0.4.5, and it started working properly:
hitting the brightness control now pops up the monitor settings dialog.
Even prior to installing WinACD I did not notice the problems
described by other correspondents (e.g. the 23" monitor stops working
even after boot), so I can't speak for whether WinACD could solve
them. However it seems unlikely, since WinACD (as the author takes
pains to point out) is only a driver for the monitor's brightness HID
and should not affect graphics issues.
(Note: A reader that reported on WinACD use here previously
replied to his comment above)
"I noticed a comment from a reader regarding WinACD "However it seems unlikely, since WinACD (as the author takes pains to point out) is only a driver for the monitor's brightness HID and should not affect graphics issues."
The fact of the matter is without WinACD installed, I can't use the monitor in BootCamp without it being black most of the time. With WinACD, I never had a problem again.
Maybe it has something to do with that USB cable and how the USB hub initializes or something? I don't know... but it (WinACD) has worked super for me for a while now.
It could be that that issue has been resolved by Boot Camp 1.1.2. The
driver package in this version installs Radeon Driver 8.283, which
falls after Catalyst 6.8 (which includes Radeon Driver 8.282) and
before Catalyst 6.9 (which has Radeon Driver 8.291). At the moment I
don't see any need to install the Catalyst package unless I need the
newer versions for a game or something.
...Of course, my ACD could start acting up tomorrow, in which case
I'll be eating those words. But I'm hoping everything will stay hunky-
dory. I'm going to try installing EQ2 next and see how it goes.
Oh, there is one quirk I noticed about Boot Camp (which has nothing
to do with the ACD): in OS X I've had my security preferences set to
require administrator authorization when changing protected system
preferences. Ever since I installed Boot Camp, however, I've had to
type in my password TWICE whenever I try to unlock the Startup Disk
preferences. I only have to type the password once in other pref
panes, though. Very strange indeed.
I hope this info is of use to your readers.
(added 11/7/2006, from 11/1 Mail)
"15" MacBook Pro. After the initial XP installation, everything was mostly working. I
loaded the drivers CD, and at some point during the installation, I got
a bluescreen on one of the drivers. I didn't notice which one though.
After it rebooted, most of the Mac drivers weren't working. Including
the keyboard and mouse. I couldn't plug in a USB mouse because it was
asking for other drivers to be loaded and wouldn't automatically load
the mouse drivers.
WHAT A NIGHTMARE! After plugging in a USB keyboard, rebooting, and
manually adding some of the drivers, I decided to give up and start
over. That is where I'm at now.
(he later wrote)
OK, after a clean start, with new XP media and new drivers disk media it
is working. Except, right click with the trackpad doesn't work. (NOTE: See above
for a later report that BootCamp 1.2 beta fixes this) Even using the
right command key with a click on the trackpad button doesn't work.
(Note: reports below were before BootCamp 1.1.2 was released)
WinACD Tip (for X1900/23in Cinema users) Follow-up from a Mac Pro/ATI X1900/23in Cinema Display user. (He had already installed
WinXP, but was having problems with the X1900XT/23in Cinema display in Windows XP. For those without another display or graphics card to use, installing WinXP wasn't possible due to no video at the XP CD install/boot with the X1900/23in Cinema display.)
Thanks for the update from ATI; It looks like Mac users aren't the
only ones with the problems! (See notes in Oct. 4th news page, ati doc
mentions same issue with X1800 card and 23in cinema display)
The solution (for issues in WinXP, not a fix for the problem of no video at boot/during XP install CD boot) I have found (on the Apple forums) is to install WinACD
(http://sourceforge.net/projects/winacd/). (Homepage under construction currently but there's info on it at this page.-Mike) Though the 23" won't light
up until the main desktop and/or password screen comes up, this definitely did work for me.
I'm not quite sure what it does, but it made my 23" monitor
recognizable in Windows XP with a proper name and resolution
settings. (See info on this page-Mike) Previous to this install of WinACD, I was only able to get
the 23" screen working intermittently, with no rhyme or reason.
I asked Paul to verify he had installed the latest ATI drivers in WinXP before.
More Mac Pro/ATI X1900 XT BootCamp/Display Reports: (previously below several owners of 23in Cinema displays (and some other displays like the Dell 24in LCD) reported no video during Win XP CD boot/install. Note that ATI has mentioned this same issue for their PC X1800 cards and 23in Displays in a tech note. See notes in Oct. 4th news page.)
"I was browsing the various ACD 23" and Boot Camp 1.1.1 issues and
reports on your site, and I thought I'd add my two cent's worth to the mix:
I have a Mac Pro (standard 2.66 GHz model) with 2GB RAM, and have a
variety of monitors here at the house to play with:
Samsung 172s LCD with 15-pin VGA analog connection
Apple 20" Cinema Widescreen
Apple 23" Cinema HD
Since I bought this Mac Pro just after the recent EFI/SMC firmware
release, I immediately applied the usual OSX updates via the Software
Update utility, as well as the firmware updates for both the extensible
firmware and systems management controller.
Boot Camp 1.1.1 and Windows XP with SP2 slipstreamed installed without a
hitch with the original nVidia 7300 GT and 23" Cinema Display. (no problems reported
with that combo, it was the X1900 XT/23in Cinema display pair that Mac Pro owners had
the no video at boot/WinXP CD boot/install phase-Mike) In
fact, I didn't have any problems with PIO mode and slow SATA performance
either (He updated his Mac Pro EFI/SMC firmware with the latest updates,
as before that even BootCamp 1.1.1 did not fix the PIO only (slow) mode for onboard
SATA in WinXP w/Mac Pros - the fix for that in the past was slipstreaming different chipset
drivers on a XP install CD) -- the installation of XP took about the usual amount of time I
would expect for a Xeon class workstation, and the Mac Boot Camp 1.1.1
drivers installed on top of XP SP2 with no problems.
Later in the week, my new ATI X1900 XT from the Apple Store arrived, and
I promptly stuck it in the system and booted into OSX with no issues.
When I rebooted the system into XP, I got the black screen --- no video
at all. After checking XLR8YourMAC for more info, I decided to switch
over to the 20" Cinema Display as some reported better luck with that.
No video! Gah. Ok, so I thought maybe I need to re-install XP and
BootCamp with the ATI card installed, as the nVidia 7300 GT might have
left some drivers embedded. (Did you install updated ATI WinXP drivers? If need be boot in safe mode (F8 IIRC) in XP and install them.-Mike) Reformat, re-install (attached to the 20"
ACD still) and everything looks great.... until the final reboot after
XP finished installing in text-mode. No video!
I tried rebooting XP with the 20" ACD and 23" ACD single, alone, on DVI
Port 1, DVI Port 2, and criss-crossed, and no help. Finally, I
grabbed an old (3 years old) 172S 17" LCD panel, connected via the DVI
to VGA adapter, and bingo - I have video. Unplug the 172S and hot plug
the ACS 20 and 23" and no video, but I can hear XP making the familiar
hot-plug beep that the new monitors are recognized. Hmm.
I re-connected the 172S, downloaded ATI Catalyst 6.9 drivers (new this
week) and hoped that would help, but alas after rebooting with the ACD
20 and 23" displays connected, neither one provided video.
I stuck the nVidia 7300 GT back in the Mac Pro, connected my 23" ACD,
and got normal video all the way through and worked fine in XP.
Hope this helps people figure out what the real problem is. I'm leaning
towards thinking it's a problem with the EFI and X1900 not providing the
correct info to XP with DVI connected displays in general, as there was
some chap with a Dell (24in LCD) that had the same issues.
Maybe Greg should try WinACD (http://sourceforge.net/projects/winacd/).
"Mike, I received my Mac Pro with Radeon x1900 yesterday afternoon. I spent some
time configuring the hard drives (I wanted to use the raptor from my G5 as
my boot drive, but first had to manually migrate my files to the Mac Pro's
disks, re-format the Raptor and install Mac OS X, migrate the files back to
the Raptor, and then partition the 250 GB Mac Pro drive the way I wanted).
I also had a little trouble installing another 2GB of RAM. When I first did
it, the new 1 GB sticks weren't recognized. I shut the system off, and
reseated everything, and then the 2 Appe 512 MB sticks weren't
recognized. Finally after another shutdown and reseat of only the Apple RAM
everything was working. I ordered the RAM from Small Dog. The sticks don't
have large heatsinks, but so far they are working fine (haven't ran any
memory stress tests yet). (ref: Mac Pro owner reports on 3rd party Memory)
After installing most of my programs I wanted to try out bootcamp. I have a
Dell 2405FPW that I remember someone saying they had problems with in
bootcamp with the Radeon (it also runs the same 1920x1200 resolution that
many others are having problems with). (including another Mac X1900/Dell 2405 user) In anticipation of this I had
created a slip-streamed XP SP2 Windows disk that had all the hot-fixes since
SP2 was released and also had the latest ATI drivers. I can say that the
install went flawlessly, was relatively quick, the monitor worked the whole
time, and when I started up the first time the x1900 was recognized and the
monitor was in 1920x1200 resolution. After installing the Apple driver cd
and restarting, it reset my resolution, but a quick trip to the control
panels fixed that.
I'll let you know if I see any problems.
(Thanks, glad to hear you had video during the WinXP boot CD/install (even before the Windows GUI/drivers load).
Had you also applied the recent Mac Pro firmware updates? (Mac Pro EFI and SMC updates, although some recent mac pro shipments
already have the latest SMC firmware version some readers said.)-Mike)
I had applied the EFI Firmware update last night when I first got it (it was
the first thing that popped up in Software Update). The SMC update had
already been applied to my machine. I just completed the Rember memory
stress test on 2 loops using all of the memory for about 30 minutes (while
monitoring ASP for ECC errors) and didn't see any ECC errors. After looking
around at the cost of RAM and reading reports I decided to go with Small Dog
because their supplier DMS (www.datamem.com) has always been trustworthy,
they have a good warranty, and they were cheap. I figured I could put the
two non-heatsinked modules in the lower bay where it is cooler, and then if
I ever replace the Apple modules I'll make sure to get heatsinked modules to
put in the upper bay.
One other thing I just posted on the bbs is a comment about Airport. I had
read somewhere that the Airport reception was much better in these than in
G5's. However, so far, it's been significantly worse for me. I looked in
side and it almost looks like an antenna cable was disconnected (right next
to the airport module), but it's hard to say since I don't really know what
to look for. I haven't had any luck finding a service manual, but if anyone
who's emailed you so far has mentioned airport, would you mind letting me
know. I might try and take a picture of what I think is the loose cable and
see if other people's Mac Pro's w/Airport have the same thing.
I don't own a Mac Pro but I had a reader say he thought the Airport reception was better than his G5 tower.
There's an article here on installing a Bluetooth module in a Mac Pro, which mentions there's 2 cables for the Airport
module (marked 1 and 2?) and removing the #2 drive bay cage was required to get at the cables. (Not sure you can
trace them all the way back to the antenna that way, but just a FYI. I'd check that the cables on the module are good and tight also.) The Photo in that article does not show the Airport module installed, but it goes
just above the Bluetooth module. (near the #2 drive bay)
Are the 2 cables connecting to the Airport module tight?
Paul sent another update on his experience with a Mac Pro/X1900 XT/23in Cinema Display with BootCamp/Win XP. (He was one of many
23in Cinema owners that saw the no video during CD install/Boot)
"One further update... I can't seem to get the 23" screen to stay
Sometimes, I'll reboot and it will work. Other times (most times),
I'll reboot and the screen just won't work. Windows will -act- like
it is there (i.e., the 20" screen is lit up as a secondary screen),
but I can't see anything on the 23". I can even log in/log out
blindly, and I can use the 2nd screen without problems, so I know
that Windows is running.
I have tried to see if I can detect a pattern on why the screen works
sometimes and not other times, but I have had no success.
Interestingly now, 24" iMac users are also reporting they cannot use
BootCamp for the same reasons. See a connection? (I'd heard that
a week or so ago after the first X1900XT/23in Cinema display owners
wrote about it-Mike)
I have given up on Boot Camp for now, which is too bad because it
makes a -fantastic- gaming machine when it works. I tried Half Life 2
Lost Coast in full 23" native res (in the rare times when the screen
would work) and it ran very fast even at such a high resolution.
Backing up Windows:
"I thought I'd share my experiences of backing up and restoring the Windows FAT32 partition of my 15" MacBook Pro 2.0ghz (early 256mb VRAM model), on which I have successfully backed up both Windows XP Pro SP2 & Windows 2000 Pro SP4 and restored them again.
First I should mention that as far as I know, there is a dummy/false MBR created by Bootcamp when it partitions the Mac OS X disc, this as far as I can tell has a few peculiarities about it. The very first time I installed Windows XP SP2 on the machine the day that Bootcamp beta 1.0 was released, I got XP working fine, however later as progress was being made with 2K on Intel Macs and the fact I prefer 2K over XP, I thought I'd give 2K a shot. So I went about making an XPE emergency disc using something called Reatogo XPE which in turn is based on something called a Bart XPE emergency disc, I then backed up the XP FAT 32 partition to a firewire external HD using Ghost 9 of the XPE boot CD. I then installed Windows 2000 on the machine first using the 2K setup to delete the XP FAT 32 partition and then creating it again under 2K, I formatted using FAT32 under 2K and installed (using a hacked 2K CD ROM with an XP SP2 NTDETECT.COM file in the i386 folder of the 2K CD). Everything worked fine except that when I booted under OS X I could see the Windows partition on the OS X desktop but there was nothing in it. Thinking this was odd I restored the XP partition back with the same problem, I could not see anything in the Windows partition from OS X.
I've since learned that, using a Windows CD to alter anything with the MBR partition list does not do anything, in fact apparently it is impossible to delete the Mac OS X partition from Windows (due the that fact I guess that it's a dummy MBR).
I have found out a work around though, what needs to be done is the following:
1. If you already have a Windows partition on the machine, you need to use Bootcamp to restore to a Mac OS X single volume (after you've backed up if needed). Reboot OS X and then create another Windows partition. Then go about installing W2K or XP in the normal way. What I'm trying to say is you cannot use Windows to destroy a previous install and create another partition, not if you want to see the Windows files under OS X anyway.
2. If you want to use a Reatogo/Bart XPE emergency disc to restore a partition, you need to adopt the same process as above. Then use the Ghost 9 app on the Reatogo CD ROM to restore from a FW ext harddrive.
3. If you want to backup and already installed Windows partition, you can boot the XPE disc just by holding C at boot time, and back up using Ghost in the normal way.
This process works fine with the exception that due it seems to the fake MBR, if you want to make a bigger partition under Bootcamp than the one backed up (i.e you want to resize the Windows partition to a larger size) you can't, Ghost 9 says that there is a locked cylinder that cannot be moved and aborts. Thus it seems using this method, you can only restore onto a partition that is the same size as the one that was originally backed up. In my case 20gb FAT32. I have not tried NTFS so I have no idea if this works or not
It's also a good idea before you backup using Ghost 9 to run Check disk and do a sector scan & repair as Ghost gives a weird error and quits unexpectedly during the backup. It took me a while to find the solution but do the following: Start - Run - cmd - chkdsk /R c: and then back up using Ghost after check disc finshes the scan/repair (it usually find errors in the Windows VM file).
On a side note, I got 2K working fine except for the Keyboard (right click/keyboard mapping is a problem) still trying to find a fix for this. Also during the install process you cannot use the normal HAL, you have to hit F5 and select "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface(ACPI) PC", which does not seem to be a dual processor HAL. I've not played with this yet, but did verify that only one core did show up in the task manager under 2K. I might give the SGI MP HAL a try, this was meant for Silicon Graphics VW 320/540 workstations which where dual PIII/Xeon's and did not have normal PC BIOS's, they used the SGI ARCS firmware interface.
How to build a 2K disk for an Intel Mac, also use the instructions available on the net on how to make the disc bootable again for this you need a util called ISO buster and read the instructions on how to slipstream an XP SP1 disk into an SP2 disk for which you need to Google:
http://forum.onmac.net/archive/index.php/t-1096.html (there's been some other links in the past here on slipstreaming SP2 info, slipstreaming updated drivers, etc.)
You'll need a copy of Symantec Ghost 9, afaik Ghost 10 does not work. You'll also need an i386 folder or installed version of Windows XP on the MacBook/Intel Mac to build the XPE disc using the Windows XPE builder app. I built mine from a installed version of XP SP2 with Bootcamp drivers installed.
Obviously you are "playing with the unknown" I am not a Windows or Mac expert and this method may result in data loss under OS X and/or Windows, if it does, don't blame me.
Thanks, Mick B."
BootCamp 1.1.1 Beta Feedback:
The following is in reply to previous Mac Pro/X1900 XT reports here and the 9/15/2006 news page Mac Pro/ATI X1900 XT feedback on Displays/Issues
"BootCamp 1.1.1 (beta), Radeon X1900 XT and Dell 2405fpw problems
Just loaded bootcamp 1.1.1 on my new macpro 2.66, (w/ATI X1900 XT) and installed XP home.
Windows did load ok, but video only in 800x600 4bit. Useable enough
to run the bootcamp mac driver disk. This went ok, but the video
drivers did not work, and upon reboot no changes in display options
and the radeon card did not show up in the device manager.
While running xp home I went to ATI's site, downloaded the drivers,
installed, and rebooted. Full display modes for the dell display now
available. It appears there are not appropriate drivers for the ATI
1900XT card on the bootcamp CD, at least when this display is being
used. I did not try hooking other monitors up.
I've installed bootcamp 1.1.1 on several macs (24" iMac, 17" Macbook
Pro) for a single purpose: to play WWII Online (www.wwiionline.com)
because it is not yet Unibin.
The problem I'm having is the Apple video drivers flip the screen 180 degrees without exception. (Only in this game I assume?-Mike)
Has anybody tried using any other drivers with good luck? (Go to ATI's site
and download the latest drivers for WinXP there and try them. I'd also write
WWII online support about this just as a FYI.-Mike)
I've since gotten rid of the Mac Pro and will be trying to use the iMac (Nvidia
7600GT) once my data is finished copying over.
Any suggestions are appreciated. BTW, you can DL and play WWIIOL in
the off-line mode for free from their website if you're really
curious as to why this problem occurs! TIA.
I had hoped that 1.1.1 might fix the Mac Pro onboard SATA (slow) PIO mode (vs DMA) issue (without needing to do the previous fix below), but it doesn't according to the first feedback:
Hi, the new version of BootCamp does not solve the problem of PIO
mode on SATA drives. Or anyway did not on my MacPro 3.0/X1900/Three 500GB
I am not so interested in Win on my machine to make me create a new Win
installer disk (i.e. DMA fix via slipstreamed drivers), that's why I just will wait for an official solution
from Apple :-) Thanks for your site, very usefull.
Update: On 9/19/2006 Apple released Mac Pro firmware updates. See Feedback on Mac Pro EFI/SMC Firmware Updates.
(Reports below were before BootCamp 1.1.1 was released)
First Mac Pro/ATI X1900 XT Reports: (See below for replies to this first report)
"My Mac Pro with ATI X1900 XT just arrived today. It's hooked up to a
new 23" ACD (which I previously reported on). After getting things
mostly setup I decided to try installing Windows XP SP2. Using Boot
Camp Assistant 1.1 Beta I created a 32 GB partition on my only drive
and restarted with my XP install disc.
The Mac restarted and obviously selected the CD to boot from as I
heard it spin up in the drive. From the initial gray screen, the
display went blank (like it does when there's no video signal) and
stayed like that. I gave it at least 5 minutes but nothing happened
and I wasn't able to start installing Windows. I tried a few more
times after unplugging all unnecessary peripherals and trying the
other DVI port on the X1900, but each time I was met with a blank
screen and had no option but to force a shutdown and boot back into
I have no idea what's causing this issue. Is the X1900 XT
incompatible? Is Windows trying to use a resolution that the 23"
can't handle? I wish I knew. I don't have any other video cards or
displays to try.
After the 2nd report (below) of the same problem with the 23in Cinema display, maybe the Windows install CD/boot (before the GUI/drivers load) is using a mode the 23in doesn't support. If any other Mac Pro/X1900 XT owners have seen anything like this (or not), send a note. Include info on the Display you're using. (I asked if he'd tried
the slipstreaming drivers tip used to fix the onboard SATA DMA issue mentioned previously and checked apple's FAQ/Troubleshooting kbase docs - they're also listed at the top of this page.) Some also suggested trying the other DVI port but Eli already mentioned he had tried that and he said he had no other display to use.
Update2: Another Mac Pro/X1900 XT/23in Cinema owner wrote mentioning a similar problem (20in Cinema was ok)
Hi from France, I just get my macpro with ati X1900XT and an apple 23" cinema display I have the same problem...
If i plug my 20" cinema display to the right dvi port (the front of
the computer facing me) - no video, if i plug to the left one it works.
I have installed windows with the 20"...if i change the connector to
plug the 23" i get a multicolor bar to the right of the screen.
I plug back the 20" and everything is ok.
After installing everything (apple drivers) i could handle the 23"
returning to osx all the afternoon, i wanted to install a pc game to
play tonight. starting up .... and black screen again. Just plug the 20"
again and i've got the video!
I will try to install the ati catalyst drivers to see if it fixes that. I will keep you informed of the result.
It's a big mess for users who don't have a second screen to install
the program. I hope it will be corrected very soon, because i changed my very good
G5 with 20" to play windows games.....actually i'm playing with my nerves
(I asked if he tried both DVI ports on the 23in display)
yep, i just tried something - using two cinema displays (20" and 23")
i have installed xp and apple drivers with the 20". after that i have
installed ati radeon catalyst driver. Plug the two screens, activate extended desktop, then switch the
two connections, unplug the 20", setting up at the good resolution the 23"!
restart to osx, restart to xp->black screen again.... after
around 1 minute the windows desktop appears directly: it works!
Partially but it works.....
1) the 23" is not recognize during boot time, but only after the
system loads the catalyst driver. WHY ????? what is different between
20" and 23". (Native resolution is different, but not sure about
support for lower res modes, etc. which are used during boot/loading.-Mike)
2) you need two screens to install xp (if you own a 23in Cinema) - a shame
APPLE BOOTCAMP TEAM SHOULD FIX THIS MESS VERY QUICKLY.
(Not sure what they can do to address this if it's due to the
mode that windows uses during boot and initial installs-Mike)
best regards, Oliver
An earlier reply from another Mac Pro/X1900 XT owner noted no problems with his 30in Cinema Display:
Hi, I have a MacPro 3.0Ghz, X1900XT, 3GB of RAM, three 500GB Hds,
wireless and BT. Yesterday I wanted to try to install Windows. I
created the drivers CD and the install was easy and quite fast. No
problem w/h the video at all. Of course I was aware of the SATA
drivers problem (Onboard SATA running in very slow PIO mode, vs DMA
- fixed by slipstreaming a CD with different drivers-Mike), and I had no will to lose my time for creating
new Win install CD. I cheked the PIO setting of the HD and so I will
wait for a set up (update) from Apple. Anyway I had absolutly no problems for
my GPU card.
(Just for the record I asked what display he was using.-Mike)
I have an Apple 30" Cinema.
I used a 22in (1600x1024 native res) DVI Cinema display years ago with Windows and even at the boot/command line screens it showed text, but never had a 23in model to try.
Anyone using the Mac Pro's 2 extra internal SATA connectors in BootCamp/WinXP?
"I wonder if anybody else has this problem.
i got a MacPro Dual 3ghz, with the latest Tiger version.
The MacPro has 6 SATA connectors. Four "internal" SATA and 2 extra
SATA. (mentioned in the Aug. 9th news page)
I use one of the "other" SATA to boot my MacPro on a Western
Digital 150gig 10,000RPM (Raptor) drive. The 4 internal disk slots are
populated by a 4x750GB RAID stripe.
I tried to install Bootcamp 1.1beta. It partitioned the boot disk
without problem. When i restart in Windows, windows can not detect
any disks. It seems that the Apple SATA drivers is not "active" for
the 2 extra SATA connectors?
(I don't know if it would matter, but I asked if he had
used the drivers for WinXP that fixed the MacPro onboard SATA DMA
problem mentioned previously here. See this article-Mike)
Anybody got boot camp (WinXP) to work on the 2 extra SATA connectors in the
Huge Thanks in advance,
Conflicting reports on BootCamp 1.1 and MacDrive (MacDrive adds support for Mac disks in Windows)
"I'm using MacDrive and bootcamp 1.1. It's not any more unreliable than
it was with bootcamp 1.0. MacDrive tends to lock up the machine and
corrupt the OSX partition on a pretty regular basis. I've rebuilt my MBP
5 times now because of MacDrive corruptions.
It has gotten better with their patches (the bluescreens stopped), but
there are still problems with bootcamp 1.1 and MacDrive 6.14 when more
than one process tries to hit the same file and/or something tries to
change a file that is listed in the mapped files that MacDrive supports.
Usually what happens is that whatever app is trying to work on the file
will slam one of the CPUs, you can't kill the process and you can't
shutdown the machine. The only option is to hold down the power button
and do a hard shutdown. After that if you do a verify or fix disk on the
OSX partition from the OSX installer DVD, there will usually be
MacDrive got a lot more reliable when I removed all the mapped files and
stopped having .NET compile with more than one thread when compiling off
a OSX partition, but still locks up about once a week.
I haven't been particularly happy with Mediafour's support. Usually at
first contact they brush you off and they aren't particularly fast with
fixes even when they have all the means to recreate the problem.
"SourceSafe client isn't supported" is one brush off line I got. Seems
to me you either sell a file system for windows or you don't. If an
application that does simple file manipulation doesn't work on MacDrive,
but works on NTFS, FAT, or FAT32, it's a MacDrive problem.
"I had (bootcamp) 1.0 working just fine. then had a problem and decided to load
1.1. After a weekend of loading and reloading OSX & XP (four or five
iterations.) I finally removed MacDrive and the thing stopped
complaining about driver issues. I may be certifiable but I like
MacDrive. Anybody know if this is a known/confirmed error that they
might be fixing? send a note (include macdrive version used). Otherwise, my
recommendation would be to stay away from MacDrive with BootCamp 1.1.
(I asked John what version of MacDrive he's using and suggested he also write them about this.-Mike)
I'm running 6.1.4 version of MacDrive
A MacDrive 6.1.3 user said he's not had any problems with BootCamp 1.1.
"I am using Bootcamp 1.1 (Mini 1.66GHz) + Macdrive V6.1.3 and all seems to
be fine. It has been running for about 31days without any problems and it
does a lot of work. Macdrive is used to access a 500GB FW external HDD
where all the image files are stored.
In the past I have found Mediafour to be very supportive and keen to fix
bugs/problems with Macdrive. Even so far as providing new updated versions
within 24hours. One of the issues I had in the past was Virus software
(McAfee) seemed to cause problems, as did some USB drivers for a webcam
Even though he's using v6.1.3, Ian later wrote that Mediafour recommended v6.1.4 for Bootcamp so not sure why John had a problem. If anyone else is using MacDrive 6.1.4 with BootCamp 1.1, let me know.
More Feedback on Mac Pro onboard SATA DMA fix in Win XP:
"Following the instructions on the web, I created a slipstreamed SP2 install disk
with specialized Intel SATA drivers, and reinstalled windows. Result?
Fast-ass disk access. I checked, and no more PIO mode only, but fast DMA!
I downloaded SiSoft's Sandra, and benched my WinXP partition (the stock
Western Digital 8MB cache, 250GB SATA/II drive):
Buffered Read: 179 MB/s
Sequential Read: 62 MB/s
Random Read: 43 MB/s
Buffered Write: 162 MB/s
Sequential Write: 61 MB/s
Random Write: 42 MB/s
Random Access Time: 7 ms (estimated)
So, everything is running full speed ahead.
I could tell it was working upon the first reboot. XP booted up insanely
fast compared to how it was before. Too bad you have to reinstall windows,
but given the prior 3MB/sec access, it's worth it.
"Hey Mike, This is Mario from the Powerlogix 300/300 G3 1/1 mb days.. Lol.. Anyways...
I have recently setup 4-5 Macbooks and Macbookpros, all different, From 13.1
Black models through many Dual core 2.0's to the 17" Macbookpro 2.16ghz
models... Well my experience with bootcamp in the first version 1.0/1.0.1
Firmware intel chip versions has been very positive. Very Mac like and
However this is strange I just set up a Duo Core 2.0 laptop
MacBookPro with 1GBram/100GBHD/256ATI Videocard. And it required me to
"FIRST update my firmware to 1.0.1. This is the firmware after the 1.0 SMC
system firmware update. (I thought Apple noted to make sure
the Intel CPU mac had the latest firmware updates before installing
BootCamp-Mike) I had Downloaded the Newest Beta Bootcamp, But trying to run it gave me a message that said I could not run this
application until I updated the firmware on my MacBook. So I did that next,
the 202mb File, 1.0.1 firmware update, from Apple and installed that.
Rebooted and then Ran Bootcamp again and allocated the space I wanted for
XP/OSX as usual. Rebooted... Then "Black Screen," Forever... I restarted
again then just held the DPAD button down and held it to force eject ANY
DISK in the drive and WinXP Booted for the first time then. Then same as
before on 1.0 bootcamp.... However the MacOSX "Driver" Disk for XP that I
had burned did not AUTOSTART until about 1-2 minutes after system restart.
And of course once WinXP restarts it starts to ask for all those missing
drivers etc. etc. I Explored the MacosxdriversForWinXP disk but somewhere on
the Mac side it starts the Driver app for WinXP. This then finds a
"Compressed MacOSXDriversforWinXP.msi file that starts to uncompress and run
on its own. I Highly recommend your readers not try to install files as soon
as WindowsXP restarts for the first time because the windows automatic new
device driver installer will conflict with the Mac installer. It is better
after the first reboot to just wait, (About a minute or just insert the
Macdriver disk you made and doubleclick on that drive in WinXP. Then let the
Autorun app do its work from there.) This will cause the least amount of
In version 1.0 of Bootcamp this was not a problem. It automatically asked for this Mac Driver disk. But in BootCamp 1.0.1 Beta..
It is a different matter. Also since I had started trying to install drivers
from the Mac Driver CD through The WinXP's Device manager..I had to leave
the MacOSX DRIVER CD while it was installing drivers on its own after that
delay, It required me to reboot 3 times to finally get all the drivers
installed correctly on the PC side...
Specs are: a MacbookPro 2.16 DuoCore, 1GB Ram, 100GB HD, 256MB ATI X1600 etc.
Hope this helps your readers in some
Mario (The MacMekanik)
"Just wanted to send you a few Mac Pro updates.
I want to confirm that the posted fix for Boot Camp (slipstreaming the Intel 5000x ESB2 RAID driver) does indeed work, and work well. Windows XP now runs 100% full speed... screams actually, with full DMA use indicated in Device Manager. (see this page for details on getting Mac Pro onboard SATA DMA mode to work (vs slow PIO mode).-Mike)
I still needed to install the Boot Camp 1.1 driver disk afterwards to get bluetooth, keyboard, sound, and the exclamation points off of my PCI EXpress slots to disappear from the device manager.
iSight still won't install (for me, maybe I am doing something wrong).
Notes on Later Vista Builds: (follow-up to older reports below on Vista)
Mike, a couple days ago Vista Pre-RC1 build 5552 was leaked to the
public. It was pulled rather quickly, but I was one of the lucky
people to get a copy of it. I used BootCamp 1.1 to make a brand new
20gb partition on my macbook's internal hard drive then installed the
I was startled to find that I made it all the way to setting up my
user account before I realized that I didn't have to delete or
disable the 200mb EFI partition on the hard drive. Subsequent reboots
also worked without any modifications.
Also, the Startup Disk pref pane in OS X 10.4.7 now sees the Vista
install as a valid bootable disk. and BootCamp properly acknowledges
the partition and gives me the option to delete it.
I'll burn a Macintosh Drivers CD in a couple minutes and test that
out, not that many of the drivers are needed. From what little I've
seen, Vista now installs drivers during installation for almost
everything except the Sigmatel Audio and the Apple Bluetooth module.
(he later wrote)
There are a lot of reports that Vista Build 5536 is very similar to
Build 5552 (only 1 day apart). So I'm going to test that also. Not
that I approve of piracy, but at least, it'd be nice to know which
versions properly support the EFI partition.
Also, I tested the XP Drivers cd. Went almost perfectly. had a couple
error messages because I had already run Windows Update and as a
result had newer drivers for the Intel GM945 chipset. Got all the way
up to installing the bluetooth drivers before it crashed and rolled
back. I'll test it later with 5536 if that version also works with
the EFI partition. Just need to remember to do it before I run
Windows Update this time to see if that helps.
Ironically though it DID get the bluetooth module to start up without
any troubles. but I assume that because of the rollback and crash,
that is why it was not running after I rebooted.
More Win XP/Boot Camp 1.1 Feedback:
Everything on my new imac was working fine ... until ... Beta 1.1.
It 1/2 installed. (maybe the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it applies)
Now cannot use my apple wireless keyboard on
windows side .... can't find any help on it either. I wanted to
remove all imac drivers ... it won't let me. What's up? Any
I asked if he could boot to windows Safe mode (F8 IIRC, of course using
USB keyboard). Then see if he could update drivers, etc. (assuming update driver
disc was made and ready.)
" It's the same old garbage from apple.
I have a triple boot machine - win/mac/linux and I can't even
burn the drivers cd to update my win partition. (NOTE: Apple's
requirements for bootcamp (and FAQ) note a single partition
drive for the install. BootCamp 1.1 didn't change that apparently.
I thought someone had some tips on extracting drivers but I can't recall the
The macbook is great - but it gives me soooooo much headaches...
EFI winxp drivers Linux boot errors blah blah blah blah....
"(Mac Pro user)
Bootcamp 1.1 Beta on mac Pro Disk Results:
I downloaded some shareware to benchmark the disk
speed in Bootcamp. (reader FYI - Mac Pro onboard SATA in PIO mode, not DMA, see
previous reports below on this. A Mac Book Pro owner reported his 2.5in internal
drive in Win XP showed nearly 40MB/sec.-Mike) Seems to be about 4MB/sec.
"After updating to boot camp 1.1 my isight no longer works, after
reading the article (see earlier post below on iSight update
for OS X included in Boot Camp 1.1-Mike) I checked it in photo booth- it is very very dark.
I am running and intel iMac 2Ghz OSX 10.4.7
Can someone tell me how to reinstate the previous drivers please.
(he later wrote)
I restarted my intel mac and the isight seems to be
working fine after the bootcamp update.
seems fine in OS X after restart (was very dark before). Will try in XP
in the next day or so - too busy working on machine in OS X to reboot!
"I have a Macbook Pro and I am having the same problem installing my
drivers and nearly the same result. I can't get wireless or ethernet
working in windows, isight doesn't work, bluetooth doesn't work, as
far as I can tell the only things that do work are the video card,
sound and the keyboard and mouse. I know the problem is with the
microsoft installer, I receive a fatal error at the end of the
installation referencing the .MSI file. I have no idea how to fix
it, I read something about possibly extracting the .msi files and
manually installing them, but I'm not technical enough for that. Do
you know of any easier fixes?
(he later wrote)
I have the latest boot camp, no I only had one partition
originally, yes I used the same drivers disc on a clean install on a
macbook today, and yes I have the latest firmware updates.
I decided to just do a clean install of windows on my macbook pro, I deleted
the partition then when I went to make a new partition boot camp said
it couldn't create the partition because it couldn't verify the
harddrive. In disk utility I am told I have a "Bit Map error" and
that it needs minor repair so soon I will be using my mac os x disc
to make the repairs and hopefully it will work after it.
Vista on Intel Macs: (Note - see above for report on later Vista builds) A couple readers sent notes on trying Vista on their Intel Macs in Wednesday's news (sounds like Win XP is a better choice than Vista for now). Joel sent a note/tip on partitions:
heres a little help for people having trouble installing the Vista betas onto their Intel Macs
1) Press and Hold Command (Apple)-S while booting into the Mac OS X partition to get into Single User mode
2) Type fdisk /dev/rdisk0 and look at the current partition map. Verify that the OS X partition starts at 409640. If it doesn't STOP HERE!!!!
3) If the OS X partition starts at 409640, type fdisk -e /dev/rdisk0
4a) To DISABLE the 200mb EFI partition, type edit 1, then type 0 to disable the partition. This will allow Vista to boot successfully.
4b) To ENABLE the 200mb EFI partition, type edit 1, then type EE for System ID, N when asked if you wish to edit in CHS mode, 1 for the offset, and 409639 for the length. This will allow you to use BootCamp again as well as install any firmware updates.
5) Type write and then reboot. This will allow the changes to the hard drive partition to take effect.
Feedback on BootCamp 1.1 beta:
Trying to update the drivers in windows caused me multiple problems.
1. Received blue screen on first reboot.
(apple has kbase doc on Boot Camp Beta 1.1: Windows XP boots to a blue screen)
2. Attempted to reinstall drivers again, got an error during the last
partition (I believe when audio is instaled) that causes the full
install to fail.
3. Reboot, ethernet, wireless, and audio no longer work. Attempts to
reinstall fail with the same error as above. Tried reburning the
disc and having it copy the files to a USB drive.
4. Tried Windows XP to "repair" install. Bluetooth no longer works,
though the new audio drivers installed properly and the wireless and
ethernet works. Attempts at running the install again fail.
I'm tired of trying this out, but i'll try reloading windows this
weekend and let you know.
(Just for the record I asked him what Intel CPU Mac he was using.-Mike)
Macbook Pro, 2.0 ghz with the 256mb graphics card.
Also, I think my windows partition was corrupted. I tried
reinstalling windows today and kept getting a missing hal.dll error
that I couldn't resolve. I had to use bootcamp to remove the windows
partition and recreate it before windows would install properly. Now
all the new drivers work correctly with no errors.
Somehow, Apple also includes an update to the OSX iSight driver with BootCamp 1.1
A deeper look into "Install Boot Camp Assistant.mpkg" package content, you'll see a "iSightDriver.pkg" file inside. Look inside "iSightDriver.pkg" and u'll see a "Archive.pax.gz". If you extract this file, you'll see "IOUSBFamily.kext" and "QuickTimeUSBVDCDigitizer.component".
I have no idea why Apple includes a OSX iSight driver in the BootCamp Installer. Anyone know why???
note: this iSightDriver.pkg is a iSight driver for OS X, not Windows.
after╩installing BootCamp 1.1, images from iSight becomes much darker, anyone notice?
oh man, I wish I could revert the the older driver.
(I asked about the before/after OS X driver versions to verify it was changed-Mike)
before installing Boot Camp 1.1, System Profiler reports:
before Boot Camp 1.1 : Built-in iSight Version 1.55
after Boot Camp 1.1: Built-in iSight Version 1.82
A later reader report said after rebooting the dark iSight issue was gone.
"Mac Pro - So far, no luck (on getting onboard SATA in DMA mode, see this page for details on getting Mac Pro onboard SATA DMA mode to work (vs slow PIO mode).-Mike). I tried just running the update on an already existing XP installation. It ran, I rebooted, still PIO mode. I'm doing a fresh load of XP right now, as the installation I was using was quite cluttered with many different attempts at installing any random driver I could find on the internet.
Also to note: I had Mac OSX installed on a Raid 0 set of 2 Raptor 36GB drives. When you run bootcamp it says something to the effect of not being able to install because of my raid. I just did a "show contents" on bootcamp and extracted the DMG to get the image to burn.
"(Mac Pro) I did test this for a while.
This update does not fix the DMA problem. (Update - see this page for details on getting Mac Pro onboard SATA DMA mode to work (vs slow PIO mode).-Mike)
I tried every registry trick in the book too to try and get the
drives forced to use DMA. Nothing worked.
So much for that...
What this update did add is the ability to see all drives, the time
problem is fixed, the eject key works, "right click" with a one
button mouse works, and bluetooth now works.
iSight external (Firewire) cameras still do not work. I didn't test on my
MacBook Pro. (Internal USB iSight)
I wish Apple would fix this (SATA DMA) problem. Windows runs horribly slow
without it. I can -use- BootCamp, but I need to endure horrible boot
up, app launch/save times. (And I -need- Windows to run MS Money).
On a separate note, I added another 500 GB WD drive today without problems, and I also
added two more 1GB Kingston sticks with no issues. Everything runs at
667 MHz, no ECC errors, etc. I see 6GB, all slots filled.
"Hi Mike, just letting you know the results of the new Boot Camp 1.1 beta on my MacBook.
1) Right-Click when pressing the right hand Apple Key doesn't work. Wonder if it is for external keyboards only.
2) Apple Keyboard Support in general works fine. nice to be able to use the brightness & volume controls as well as the eject key natively without the need for a 3rdparty program.
3) iSight and microphone support works perfectly in yahoo messenger.
4) Time still does not sync properly when switching between XP and OS X Tiger 10.4.7 (some previously
said this was fixed, some not.)
All in all a most welcome and most needed update indeed.
now if only they would issue drivers for the TPM module. So far only the Vista Betas seem to have support for it.
"(Mac Pro)... Farking PIO mode (no DMA mode on onboard SATA of Mac Pro) still there. Even did a fresh re-install.
I may toss this MacPro Boatanchor out the window. I'm sooooo pissed.
Sold a BadAssed $3K Gaming Rig to use this as my OS X / X P all in
one machine. OMG I'm soooo pissed...
I wondered if deleting the current driver and rebooting/redecting (installing new driver from Boot Camp 1.1 drivers disc) would help but he said he tried a clean reinstall. If I had a Mac Pro running XP, I'd be tempted to use a PATA drive for XP (which doesn't have the problem per previous Mac Pro owners).
"I have extracted the contents of the new BootCamp Driver set. All I wanted was the iSight driver, nothing else, because there are some reported problems with the new driver set (bluetooth not working, BSOD, etc.), and my system was working perfectly, so I didn't want to risk it. To install it you have to update the drivers of the recognized, but actually not working Imaging Device, in the Device manager (after that it will be recognized as the Built-in iSight).
There were some others who were only looking for the iSight driver as well, so here is a RapidShare link to the file:
I installed the new drivers and noticed that Apple Keyboard Support
only supports some localized keyboards i.e. English, French, German,
Spanish. Amongst missing languages, is all Scandinavian languages
even though they are officially supported in OSX. Slightly annoying
that the documentation did not mention this. It would have saved me
30 minutes troubleshooting.
Take care! Geir
(Note: reports below are *Before* Boot Camp 1.1 was released)
BootCamp 1.0.2 beta Feedback:
"I updated to (bootcamp) 1.0.2 and it fixed the bug that most annoyed me.
No longer do I have to fix the TIME on XP when I boot up!!!
It was always 7 hours ahead.
(This problem was mentioned here here previously. (Apple had a faq item on it - suggesting you use the network time server/sync option on every boot into XP.) I asked Tony to confirm that he no longer had to re-sync-Mike)
The network time sync was always used (and turned on) in both Mac and
Windows, but I still had to manually go and hit the 'sync now' button
for XP. Now I don't have to to that.
Another reader also said it fixed the problem on his system:
Fixed the issue for me.
Macbook Pro 17 10.4.7
Win XP Pro SP2 all updates
Not sure what is different on their setup but 2 MacBook owners later said they still have to do the re-sync. One mentioned he'd done a clean install of XP Home and Bootcamp.
Here's the first BootCamp 1.0.2 beta 1 comments (from July 11th news page)
Hi Mike. FYI, the version 1.0.2 package includes a Boot Camp Assistant
application that's 168 bytes larger than the old one and a driver CD disk
image that's about 4.5MB larger than the previous release; everything else
is the same size, despite some different mod dates.
The main (if not only) purpose of 1.0.2 would seem to be improved hardware support (although iSights, Apple Remotes, Apple USB Modems, and MacBook Pro keyboard backlights are still explicitly not supported).
"Hi Mike, and just a quick note on game performance on
a 15" MacBook Pro running Windoze XP Pro.
My son just got a brand new 2.16GHz Intel Dual Core
Macbook Pro (with 1GB RAM) and using the Bootcamp
instructions from the Apple site, installed XP Pro on
a partition without a hitch today. He then installed
Dawn of War, a Windoze RTS game along with the
expansion pack Winter Assault and has been playing for
hours without a hang or a hitch!
In comparison, he's been playing that same game on a
Sony Vaio for several weeks and the difference is
noticeble! Granted, this is probably not a fair
comparison since the Vaio is a 2 year old machine
running XP Home on a 2.8GHz P4 with 512MB of RAM with
an older graphics chip, but I find it so ironic that
Windoze running on a Mac is soooo much more stable
than Windoze on a PC. Heh. The game will hang or he'll
get the blue screen of death at least once or twice
every few hours on the PC. It gets choppy with
definite slowdown with a lot of action and NO such
problems on the MacBook Pro.
So if there are any Warhammer fans out there among
your readers that want to play Dawn of War on a
Macbook Pro... 1) Windoze XP Pro runs great and installed
without a hitch on the MacBook, and 2) Dawn of War
runs *better* on the Windoze partition of the MacBook
than on a Vaio with a 2.8G P4.
Make a difference; be the difference! Mahalo and
(BootCamp/XP users, don't forget to run windowsupdate.com regularly to get all the MS windows updates - often security related as well as keeping your AV software updated. I rarely run an XP machine anymore but still use freeAVG on it, which is updated frequently.)
BootCamp user Info/Tips on Booting XP from USB Drive (from 4/17/2006 news page, in reply to a past posts/questions on using WinXP on an external drive from Intel CPU Mac owners)
"Mike... Found this for your readers:
Hello, I cannot find a working solution for this posted so I'll post the
solution I came up with (well, cobbled together from other people's hard work). I am using a MacBook Pro and an external G-Tech Q drive that supports USB 2.0. While XP does not officially support booting from a USB drive there is a way around it.
This solution requires access to a PC and is a bit time-consuming.
- Use BootCamp to create a 5GB XP partition.
- Using a PC and your Windows XP SP2 CD, go through the following process
to create a USB enabled XP SP2 installation CD:
- Plug your USB 2.0 external drive into your mac.
- Put your new XP SP2 CD into your MAC and boot holding down the "C" key.
- XP installation should begin, when you get to the drive choice, be sure
to choose your USB drive. You may have to pre-format this drive to NTFS,
mine was already formatted.
- You will get a screen warning you that drive C needs to be formatted.
This is OK because XP needs to write some temporary data to the startup
(internal) disk. It will format the 5GB XP partition you created in step 1.
- Follow the installation prompts and when your Mac reboots be sure to hold
down the Option key. You will get a choice to boot to either your OSX
installation, XP or the XP CD. Choose the XP hard drive.
- The normal XP installation will continue. You will get some warnings
about unsigned divers. This is fine and is occurring because you tampered
with the XP installation files in step 2. NOTE: My installation hung once
here. I just reboot and tried from step 7 again and it worked fine.
- Once XP comes up install your BootCamp device drivers.
Good luck! I just now finished this so I have some testing to do. A very big
thank you to emmanual from ngine.
Notes/Tips on Win XP vs OS X Time differences on MacBook Pro
(*Update* - BootCamp 1.0.2 released in July 2006 reportedly fixed this issue for 2 readers although 2 Macbook owners said they still had to re-sync.)
"I installed BootCamp and XP on my new MacBook Pro on Monday night so that I could run SolidWorks. It seems to work very well and it seems at least as fast as the Windows x64 Edition Dell workstation I moved from.
I do however have one stange problem. The clock (date and time clock, not processor clock) seems to be getting changed. If I set the time correctly, I can't log onto our network because it says the difference in time between my laptop and the server is too great. Yesterday I thought I'd found the issue in that the OS X side was set wrong. I corrected it and logged in to the network successfully. This morning I noticed the time was wrong again. I went back to OS X and that was correct, both time and time zone and was not set to get the time from the internet. I logged into XP as a local account and set the time correctly and again it would not let me into the network. The time I have to show on my laptop is always 4 hours ahead of the real time (or I have to set my time zone to Alaska!) The IT guy tells me that the server is showing the correct time.
The only other issue I have is the display flicker, almost like it's trying to show me a subliminal message. It's not too annoying, so I can live with that, but the time issue really has me stumped.
Regards, Gavin M."
I didn't know if XP had a server time sync option but asked Gavin. (I have a homebuilt AMD 64/XP machine from a couple years ago but never noticed this problem but it's rarely used anymore.) However within minutes of posting this a reader replied with a solution:
"The BootCamp docs mention this. The suggested solution is to use a
network time server on both Mac OS and XP sides.
Juggling too many things here but after Todd's mail I checked the Apple BootCamp FAQ (linked here in Monday's news, the BootCamp reports page and our FAQ's Apple Intel CPU Macs section) and it has an item on this way down the page:
Why is the time different between Mac OS X and Windows XP on my computer?
The Windows XP and Mac OS X operating systems handle your computer's date
and time information differently, so the date and time may be different when
you switch operating systems. For best results, use a network time server
and resync the date and time whenever you switch operating systems. In Mac
OS X, use the "Set date & time automatically" option in the Date & Time
preferences. In Windows XP, click the Update Now button in the "Date and
Time Properties" control panel.
"I tried BootCamp on a new MacBook Pro. Installed XP, and MacDrive so
that I could put all my data on the OSX drive. That seemed to work fine
for a while, I even got Firefox to share the profile between OSX and
About halfway through copying over my itunes library from another PC
from the XP side using MacDrive, I got a couple of complaints from
MacDrive about an improperly shutdown drive or something like that,
files on the OSX drive started disappearing, a blue screen, and then
after that XP was the only bootable volume. I booted up with the OSX
install disk to try and repair the OSX disk, but it was unrepairable,
nothing to do but repartition back to a single partition and start from
scratch. I'm rebuilding it now and will try again.
Anyone else seen a problem like this?
"I have tried boot camp on my mac and when installing windows it had
to skip some files as it couldnt find them from the install disk.
Now when I restarted and went to boot up of OSX CD to find my normal
HD mac partition, the Mac HD startup wasnt an available startup option.
The windows install keeps insisting on installing windows setup files
which it never finds.. My imac is now in limbo.
(I asked if he had a SP2 (service pack 2) Windows install CD-Mike)
It is an XP SP2 disk, I'd be happy if I were able to see my mac HD
system folder while in cd bootup, but i can't.
Anyone have an suggestion for Adrian?
"Re: "BTW - one reader with "unresponsive keyboard" problems during the install said a tip was to disconnect any peripherals that are attached - and suggested using a different mouse than Apple's "Mighty Mouse".
I had the same problem with my MacBook Pro 2.16GHz/7200rpm/2GB RAM and MightyMouse. I got to the SetUp page where Windows asks "ENTER=CONTINUE" to continue with the install. Keyboard would not respond. I tried using a different Mac Keyboard and disconnecting the MightyMouse. Nothing. So I rebooted, relaunched the BootCamp installer and started the Windows installer over again. Things proceeded much more quickly this second time and when I got to the "ENTER=CONTINUE" page, keyboard worked just fine.
"Well, I installed the firmware update yesterday and set up Win XP on
my 1.83 MacBook Pro. Overall very worthwhile... The slight buzzing
sound seems to have gone away, as others have reported. As well, the
bottom of the laptop ~seems~ to be cooler. Prior to the update, I
couldn't keep my laptop on my bare legs due to the heat... Now it's
As for Win XP - it seems to run pretty flawlessly. I ran a few
3DMark06 - 1103
PCMark05 - 3465
Decent scores for a mobile. I installed Battlefield 2 and was
pleasantly surprised that it ran perfectly fine. Graphical details
were pretty much set to minimum, but it ran smoothly and was
certainly playable. I'll have to experiment a bit with increased
detail settings and some other games/apps.
I doubt I'll use WinXP a whole lot, but it's nice to have the
capability to run at native speeds.
"BootCamp XP on Dual Core iMac
Installed and runs fine for me so far. Performance seems as good as
P4 3.2GHz with fast drive. Inet browsing seems very fast and Symantec
AV corporate scans seem quick also. Have not tried any benchmarks yet.
Only install glitch I had was that BootCamp had me repair my drive
with Disk Utility booted from an OS X startup disk.
Only glitches I have seen with XP itself is that enet port sharing
from a G5 iMac to the DC iMac via FW would not work. I could get the
normal IP addresses and a few received packets, but no internet
browsing or Windows network access. It does work via WiFi (internal
airport cards) and FW works with both macs running OS X. Also noticed
that the "help" and "details" buttons would hang for a very long time
the "domain could not be found" dialog box (as when joining an XP
client to a domain) when clicked.
A mini owner that previously reported problems sent an update that
it's working now:
...it finally works -- my problem was my Windows Install CD, my Mac Mini could not read it correcly. I made a copy of it with Disk Utility, by creating an image of it, and the install went smoothly right away. It took my 1h30 to install Windows.
And now, with my mac mini solo 1.25GB of ram, it is FAST. Very fast. I can hardly believe it.
I've just installed Windows XP on my Mac Mini Core Duo with 512MB
RAM, and run Cinebech both in MacOS and Win. In my opinion Windows
works great on the mac mini. I will try adobe cs2 later.
Here are the results in mac os:
Tester : Marcus K
Processor : Mac Mini Core Duo
MHz : 1660
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : Mac OS 10.4.6
Graphics Card : Intel GMA 950
Resolution : 1280x1024
Color Depth : 32 bit ("Millions")
Rendering (Single CPU): 255 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 486 CB-CPU
Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.91
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 304 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 1082 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 550 CB-GFX
OpenGL Speedup: 3.56 (in SW lighting mode)
Tester : Marcus K
Processor : Mac Mini
MHz : 1660
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : Windows XP SP2
Graphics Card : Intel 945GM
Color Depth :
Rendering (Single CPU): 249 CB-CPU
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 457 CB-CPU
Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.83
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 289 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 871 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 1063 CB-GFX
OpenGL Speedup: 3.67
See below for graphs of CB 9.5 tests of XP vs OS X from MacBook Pro and iMac 1.8GHz models.
Boot Camp Failure to Launch:
" I'm unable to run the Boot Camp assistant on my Mac Mini Core Duo (Superdrive model). I installed the firmware update, and I'm running OS 10.4.6, but when I launch the assistant, it says the assistant cannot run because I "need to update my system software."
I've not installed any previous onmac hacks or anything... this is a brand new
I tried rebooting, and I'm certain the Firmaware Update took... I ran
the installer again and it reports the firmware is up-to-date.
I have posted a request for help on the Apple support forums to no avail. There are many others
out there with the same issue, too (according to the responses my posting got).
I'll let you know if I hear anything...
Thanks again, Tim"
If anyone has a tip/fix for this send a note. Thanks.
(added 4/7/2006 - updated for fix/tips)
I'm having trouble installing Windows XP on my MacBook Pro using Boot
Camp. It's a 2 gigahertz model with full RAM. It has not been
altered from what was shipped from the factory.
I did the firmware update. No problems.
I partitioned the hard drive setting the windows side at 15 Gigs. No
When I put in the Windows XP CD, it goes into "Windows Setup" and
spends time loading a series of files.
Then it says "Setup is Starting Windows".
Eventually, it goes to a screen called: "Windows XP Home Edition
Setup". You are given three options. The first one says "To set up
Windows XP now, press ENTER". This is where it gets hung up. It
does not seem to respond to any keystrokes on the MacBook Pro
keyboard. I press RETURN and ENTER and nothing happens. The other
two options in the menu are "To repair a Windows XP installation
using Recovery Console, press R." and "To quit Setup without
installing Windows XP, press F3."
Unfortunately, no keystrokes seem to work at this point. I have to
reboot the computer to get it to do anything. I've tried
reinstalling it several times and I can't get past this. I've also
reformatted the partition a couple times (increasing the Windows side
file size to 15) and that seems to have no impact as well. I never
get to the screen that asks you to select a partition. Any
thoughts? Is there something incredibly obvious that I'm not doing?
(he later wrote)
I ultimately was able to install it (and have it run fine) after I did some searching on the Apple
forums. I discovered that many people were having the unresponsive
keyboard problem during installation on the MacBook Pro.
The trick, it turns out, is to boot up the computer without any peripherals
attached -- mainly a USB Mighty Mouse. For some reason, the Mighty
Mouse made the keyboard unresponsive during the installation. If the
computer was booted up without any peripherals, the installation
Thanks again for your help.
BootCamp Tutorial Video:
A 6 minute video showing the process on how to install, use, and
interact with Apple's new "Boot Camp"
Works as advertised. Funny, though not surprising, that Apple can do
Windows better than Microsoft. Install went pretty much as described except for the fact that I had
some difficulty with the installer recognizing a slipstreamed copy of
XP with SP2. Oh.. it took a LONG time to install. At least an hour
with all of the driver installs and updates. In the end the system
recognized my connected Dell 2405 with no worries.
Kinda freaky seeing it on my MacBook Pro (2.0 , 2gigsRam, otherwise
standard) like watching a car wreck or something.
There is a slight glitch on windows when the desktop fist appears.
The screen flickers a couple of times and the mouse stutters. After
a couple of seconds it works like normal. The color is completely
hosed, too, on the external monitor. It's faded and washed out.
I'll calibrate it later.
Rebooting back into OS X has taken the edge back off... It'll be
great, though, to FINALLY be able to do my graphics homework at
home... oh... and the REAL reason to load Windoze: games. :)
Question on Accessing the Other Partiton: (i.e. if booted to OS X can the Windows XP partition be seen and vice/versa)
Yes it can.
The windows drive is accessable on MacOS without any driver installation (I use FAT32 for the windows drive).
For Windows XP, you need Macdrive 6.1 (http://www.mediafour.com/products/macdrive6/) to access the Mac HFS partition.
I can confirm it is working.
Key mapping is funny on the MacBook Pro... There is no "\" key, rather it is displayed as "#". Track pad is a bit fidgety and does not have cursor acceleration.
Mike, XP is now installed on my mini. No mention of expiry date I'm afraid.
Maybe it's network switched :-)
Let me know if you need any more info.
(added 4/6/2006 - updated 4/7/2006)
Hi Mike, Boot Camp would not partition my 100GB MPB 2.0GHz drive, saying
something like "Certain files could not be moved, backup your hard
drive, use Disk Utility to format & restore then try again"
I have 21GB free.
(Is there too much fragmentation on the drive perhaps?)
Thought it might have something to do with defragging large files, in
particular the VM swapfiles. So, I restarted and fired up the Boot
Camp assistant straight away and it worked without a hitch.
Might like to post this on the site to help others.
OK...now running XP Pro on my Mac...Windows side becomes infected with a
worm, virus or trojan...maybe something else that slows operations to a
crawl. Since Windows infections are known to infect to the root level is the
MAC side contaminated also?
How did you get infected? On a real PC I think some in the past have infected the boot blocks but
I don't think your OS X install would be infected. But this brings up a good point
on fresh Windows installs. I'd always suggest doing this immediately:
(but if you're already infected you need to clean that up
first - not sure what you have but there are some utils for specific
infections often at sarc.com and other AV vendor sites.)
- Go to Windowsupdate.com and check/download any security related updates
- Check if windows firewall is enabled (I never updated to XP SP2 yet
so maybe that's a default now)
- Download and install antivirus software (like "Free AVG") and
anti-spyware software (there's several of these - I used two on the last
homebrew here but can't recall their names now.)
- Download free Firefox (browser) and Thunderbird (mail client) and use
them instead of IE and Outlook Express. (Although you need Internet Explorer
to run Windowsupdate unless they've changed that)
I'm unable to run the Boot Camp assistant on my Mac Mini Core Duo (Superdrive model). I installed the firmware update, and I'm running OS 10.4.6, but when I launch the assistant, it says the assistant cannot run because I "need to update my system software."
I've not installed any previous onmac hacks or anything... this is a brand new machine.
Sure the firmware update completed successfully? (doesn't make sense - asked him to reboot the machine
and try again)
Hi Mike! I tried Boot Camp on two iMac 20". Both were freshly installed from
DVD. One would refuse the Firmware Updater. Flashing and beeping at
me but not installing the Firmware. I did NOT have the XOM Bootloader
installed on that machine. I tried reinstalling Mac OS X after
initialising the HD and the iMac told me that it could not install OS
X on the internal drive as it would not be able to boot from that
disk. (Check to make sure it's in the correct format for Intel Macs (mentioned
in the FAQ/late Jan. news page- from an apple dev. doc that mentions intel
macs can only boot (and install OS's to) a GPT disk partition scheme (PowerPC is APM). But if the drive was formatted from a Disc booted from the Intel Mac, it should default
to the correct format (no options shown). There have been some compat. problems with some WD drives and the onboard
SATA however but if that's the OEM drive it shipped with that isn't the problem.-Mike)
That iMac has a Western Digital HD. That machine probably has
some other problems as well so it might not be the firmware updater
that is at fault.
The other iMac accepted the Firmware update just fine and
repartitioning with the Boot Camp Assistant went fine. Installing
from a XP/SP2 CD in german language went fine as well as running the
Mac Driver install. Speed was impressive. I tried Halo and Unreal
Tournament 2004 Demos as well as the F.E.A.R. Demo. All ran at
perfectly playable speeds. Playing HD Movie Trailers in QuickTime
from the Apple Site went without noticable frame dropping even for
1080p content downsized to the iMac's screen.
Installing FlyakiteOSX helps to reduce the cultural shock. :-)
Best Regards, Pepi
Question on External Drives:
One thing I wanted to know with Boot Camp is if it will let you
install/boot XP off a external firewire or USB disk.
A similar question/reply came up in the news page last month with the onmac.net bootloader -
XP doesn't support booting from FW drives and a reader said the XP installer didn't show anything but the internal drive in the target install options. (Not sure if Bootcamp really affects that but if anyone tries let me know.)
"Boot Camp - Cinebench testing
(Before April 7th Cinebench update for OS X, so OpenGL scores are
Machine: MacBook Pro 1.83GHz factory stock everything.
(I graphed the results-Mike)
(19% lower total score)
Product Manager & New Product Development
Other World Computing, Inc."
The OpenGL scores have the biggest delta, which echoes what I've seen in the past on Cinebench PC vs Mac results. The iMac results had even higher scores:
Mike, I got around to running cinebench on my intel imac 1.83ghz with OS X and
windows XP. Here are the results:
(Before April 7th Cinebench update for OS X)
(John's later results with April 7th update to Cinebench for OS X)
Thanks, John W.
Another iMac 1.83 Core Duo owner wrote he had much better OpenGL HW-L (hardware lighting) scores than John. (Turns out it was due to using the April 7th revised Cinebench 9.5 - see notes below)
"I've included my own Cinebench scores for my Intel iMac Core Duo 1.83 GHz. I noticed that the ones you provided on your home page a few days ago were very bad in comparison to what I was seeing. Those (John W.) results put the Mac OS X OpenGL scores well below Window's XP. My results, however, show Mac OS X performing better than WinXP. (UPDATE: the reason for the better OpenGL scores is that CineBench 9.5 was revised on April 7, 2006 - with a note "CINEBENCH 9.5 adapted to the latest Mac OSX OpenGL implementation."
the revised Cinebench show significantly higher OS X OpenGL Scores than those from before the update. For more info on Cinbench or to download the latest version, see www.cinebench.com.-Mike)
Processor : iMac Core Duo 1.83 GHz (2GB RAM)
MHz : 1830
Number of CPUs : 2
Operating System : Mac OS X 10.4.6
Graphics Card : ATI Radeon X1600
Resolution : (not listed)
Color Depth : (not listed)
Rendering (Single CPU): 283 CB-CPU -- 1:19s (Dave)
Rendering (Multiple CPU): 533 CB-CPU -- 0:41s (Dave)
Multiprocessor Speedup: 1.89
Shading (CINEMA 4D) : 334 CB-GFX
Shading (OpenGL Software Lighting) : 1324 CB-GFX (John's score was 906 in OS X)
Shading (OpenGL Hardware Lighting) : 2692 CB-GFX (John's score was 1662 in OS X)
OpenGL Speedup: 8.07
Oh, one thing to note, my iMac has 2 GB of RAM which could have some effect on my Cinebench Mac results. I didn't see how much RAM the other machine had.
Although a WoW gamer said he saw much higher FPS rates in XP (w/more graphics options also) than OS X on the same system, WoW on the PC uses directX vs Opengl and Mac WoW univ. binary for Intel macs is relatively new.
In the past there were hardware differences (CPU, Motherboard, not just GPU) as well as the software, but now you can run on the exact same hardware for cross-platform apps/benchmarks. Granted vendors have a lot larger coding teams on the PC side than the Mac side and graphics card drivers are also more frequently updated on the PC side too. And MS does the OS and DirectX API and it's updated more often than OpenGL (which is a cross-platform standard). Since Doom3 uses OpenGL on both PC and Macs, it would be interesting to see how that compares, although most PC games use DirectX.
(BTW On new macs w/Tiger if Spotlight is still indexing the drive that takes a hit on performance. You can temporarily disable it using the System Prefs/Privacy option for Spotlight.)
I've already downloaded Boot Camp and used it to install Windows XP
Professional SP2. I thought it may be nice to share the experience
for those who are less aggressive about adopting new technology than
I am. The experience can be summed up as such: "Wow, that was easy."
I'm a nut about playing video games. I've got an Xbox 360. I've also
got several late model PCs that help satisfy my obsession. One is a
Dell, and the other two are DIY boxes that I hand-built. Install XP
on my MacBook was way easier than doing so on the other PCs. It's not
even close. Apple's got a clear guide on their site, but here's an
overview of the process (do firmware upate first-Mike)
- Download Boot Camp.
- Install Boot Camp.
- Run Boot Camp Assistant.
- Follow the onscreen instructions.
- Insert a blank CD when promoted to create a driver CD.
- Insert an XP CD when requested.
- Install XP. You'll have to decide between NTFS and FAT32.
- After XP is installed, insert the driver CD to load all the needed
- Dual-boot to your heart's content.
So far, the only major problem I've seen is that the MacBook has no
right-click functionality. (an earlier MBP report links to an "apple mouse" (one button) utility and also said there was no iSight support yet, or keyboard backlight. -Mike) That's a bigger problem than you'd think.
Contrary to what Apple claims, Bluetooth works fine, at least for me. (others mentioned it did also-Mike)
Performance is quite good. I ran Second Life and Half Life 2 via
Steam. Both run well enough, factoring in that this is a mobile GPU.
Of course, CPU performance is great. I'm thrilled because I was
thinking about getting a Wintel notebook to game on the go. Now, I
don't have to.
Installed Windows XP Pro XP2 on my MBP 2GHZ. It works without major problem,
most important is the Video driver WORKS GREAT. Testing 3DMARK 05 now, I am
100% sure it is working at natvie speed. However there is still some
problems. For example, you can't right click with the trackpad - install the "Apple mouse
utility" (www.geocities.com/pronto4u/applemouse.html) or use an external USB mouse, no scroll on the track pad, no keyboard back light, no
BTW, it's a lot better solution than XOM.
That's good news on the video driver. (NOTE: A later report above said that BootCamp 1.2 beta fixes trackpad issues)
Tips for Win XP pre-SP2 Owners: (As a Service Pack 2 CD is required)
Folks with Windows XP "SP0" CDs are not out of luck. For those
without Windows XP SP2 CDs, they can use the "slipstream" procedure
to legally create an XP SP2 CD from their old XP SP0 CD.
After testing, Boot Camp does work with slipstream CDs.
Several step-by-step tutorials for creating a slipstreamed CD can be
found via Google
Another BootCamp success story on a MBP and Mini:
Mike, I've installed XP Pro on my MacBook, as well as a Core Solo Mac Mini.
No problems on the firmware update process. Partitioning the hard drive was easy (nice to be able to do that without a full reformat.)
The ATI driver install (as well as a couple of others) said it wasn't Windows tested, and gave the option of installing anyway (or not.) (I've seen that before - not WHQL) The machine booted at 800x600, but after installing the drivers, it's now running at 1440x900 native resolution.
Unlike the onmac.net XP solution, the eject key works, sound works.
BTW I didn't try the install over the onmac.net solution; I reformatted first, and had no issues (this was on the Mini.) The Macbook never had the previous XP hack.
Bluetooth is working, as is wireless networking (had to install the WEP password in hex for it to finally connect to my Airport Base.)
Just heard a top of the hour AM radio update (Fox News) with a news story about running Windows on Macs.
IMHO, it's time to buy more Apple stock. :) Running Windows seamlessly opens up a lot of opportunities for the corporate world that never existed for Apple before...
A friend said Apple stock was on the rise today.
I saw BootCamp in today's news and had to try it. I instaled the firmware update on my 1.83ghz iMac. No issues there. I then started up bootcamp. It asked me to make a macintosh driver CD for XP, so I did that.
Then, without damaging my OSX partition (which was all of the drive) it made a 5GB partition for XP. I don't use XP much so I thought that was fine.
It asked me to insert my XP CD and once I did that I clicked restart. The installation was painless. It took about a half an hour. Once XP booted the first time i inserted the macintosh driver CD BootCamp made for me and once that was done bluetooth, wireless, ethernet, and even graphics drivers were installed. It functions perfectly!
Take care, John W."
Earlier MBP owner comments but hadn't installed XP yet:
"I applied the firmware update and have noticed no changes in system behavior. I also completed the initial stages of BootCamp including creating the driver CD and partitioning 15GB of my MBP's 80GB hard drive. No problems. I have not yet attempted to install WinXP as I do not have a disk at my office. I'll write in when I do.
I had mentioned earlier to Scott that I thought SP2 was required. An Intel Mini owner mentioned he had problems with BootCamp at first:
(added 4/5/2006 - updated 4/7/2006)
I tried to install Windows XP on my Mac Mini but so far it does not complete the install. It stops at loading FAT.... I'll try again.
(I asked him if he'd applied the Mini firmware update first - required for BootCamp per Apple, and was running 10.4.6 - he said yes and sent a update with more info-Mike)
it looks like the problem was I didn't have enough free space on my
HD. I did free 12GB and I was able to resume installation. Now, I am
not able to complete installation. I get the Windows color bar, and
the remaining time for installation 36 minutes... then error message (CRC error),
etc. I'll try one more time.
I do have 10.4.6 and I did apply the firmware update.
(he later wrote)
it finally works -- my problem was my Windows Install CD, my Mac Mini could not read it correcly. I made a copy of it with Disk Utility, by creating an image of it, and the install went smoothly right away. It took my 1h30 to install Windows.
And now, with my mac mini solo 1.25GB of ram, it is FAST. Very fast. I can hardly believe it.