"Re: 2013 Mac Pro (reply to questions from original post/OS X 10.9.2 report)
Hey, I'm sorry I didn't follow up with you earlier but I am now. Thank you for all your tips. I actually didn't try any of them because I was in the middle of a job and couldn't risk something getting screwed up. I just left all energy-saving functions off.
The one thing that changed hardware wise since, is that I used to have a BlackMagic Design Thunderbolt Mini Monitor daisy chained to the Pegasus R6. Now it's an AJA T-Tap. But I ruled out the BlackMagic box because even when it and the Pegasus R6 Thunderbolt array were powered down, I still saw issues and the odd reboot state with other drives attached. (I never did test the sleep again with the BlackMagic Box removed...)
Of note - a friend of mine with a 2011 Macbook Pro (non retina) had the same issues under 10.9.1.
Today (Feb 25th), as you know, OS X 10.9.2 came out. And it seems to have resolved all my sleep problems. First, I had two USB3 drives attached as before and the Thunderbolt array on. I ran a video editing compression job and walked away. I let the display go back to sleep on it's own (via the time set in Energy Saver preferences) and when I woke up the screen, the computer was behaving normally. I have put it to sleep manually and woken it up, and all is well. I have let it render in the background, watched the displays go to sleep, walked back later, woke it up, and all was normal. (The latter two situations under 10.9.1 would always cause what seemed like a reboot, which upon logging in showed dropped drives and drives that looked mounted but were no longer mounted before). I have locked the screen (forcing the screens off) and come back to it, waking it normally.
This includes my USB three attached drives, and also my Pegasus R6 Thunderbolt array when it is on. And my time machine USB drive properly goes to sleep now when not being used. I have also noticed my attached Samsung 840 EVO SSD (in a OWC USB 3 Express enclosure) wakes up instantly after sleep or drive power save, whereas before when woken it would lock up for about 10 seconds. (And then all kinds of other Finder oddness would occur after that).
So the problem had to be with the OS. (The unique late 2013 "Mac Pro" version of 10.9.1)
Just for reference, to answer some of your older questions:
- The Pegasus R6 has worked fine with two iMacs, two retina MBPs, two MBAirs, and now the Mac Pro.
- The console had nothing unusual in it that I can remember.
- (OS X Mavericks) Clean install - never tried.
- I do have a USB3 HD dock (Voyager 3) but it was never on in any of these situations.
The drives USB and Thunderbolt - seemed to survive a manual sleep before (they sure do now). The issue I had was I am pretty sure tied to the display or drives sleeping before the computer did. The computer could be doing a lot in RAM and when finished, it would discover that the drives would either have dismounted (the Peagasus) or go into a limbo state (all the others) where they seemed mounted but were otherwise inaccessible.
In OS X 10.9.2 (I forget 10.9.1) there seem to be no sleep setting timer for the entire computer. Just the display, and the hard drives. There's also a setting for "prevent computer from sleeping automatically when the display is off" which I have checked. (It didn't seem to matter before.)
The controller in the nMP actually is a PCIe 3.0 link to a 2.0 controller. Anandtech's site clears that up better than I can.... There's plenty of bandwidth unless more than one USB3 device totally saturates the bus (over 500MB/sec) which I have not seen with even an SSD. That might happen with a USB3 RAID but people really should be using Thunderbolt for that kind of thing anyway.
I agree with you on sleep; I only like it on my rMBP laptop (for obvious reasons). Hibernate makes total sense there. On this computer and desktops in general, especially with flash storage, it seems silly. What I do want and need however is display and drive sleep. Otherwise when I walk away on a long render job, I can't shut off the Apple screen. And my Seagate USB3 time machine drive would -always- stay on unless I unplugged it without drive sleep. (even if ejected it would stay on). It has a loud fan, so I hated that.
(The only automatic sleep setting I use is display sleep (saves backlight), not drives but I understand your needs/usage (and setup) is far different than mine. (I've also had some problems in the past with drive sleep enabled, although some drives have their own "energy saving" in firmware, regardless of OS X's sleep settings.) My ext. TM drive for (old) work mac isn't mounted until needed. I have TM off and use it manually as needed from the menu bar, after mounting TM drive.
BTW: You probably already know it but there's been some USB3 drive (Seagate and WD) firmware updates that may affect sleep behavior IIRC (but for any w/o problems, don't 'fix it'). Linked to them in a drive tips post a few months back and mentioned my USB3 HD Dock had a bridge firmware update (to allow drive sleep) but I didn't update since I only used it for drive cloning (which worked perfectly for that) and did not want/need any drive sleep with it, although some would. I only connect the dock when using it to backup or restore a drive.-M.)
Interestingly, I remember on 10.9.1 that same seagate drive on my late 2012 27" iMac would never spin down unless I ejected it. Same on the Mac Pro. On 10.9.2, it spins down even while still mounted.
I'll let you know if it becomes an issue, but I can no longer replicate the old behavior now, testing all afternoon.
Unrelated to sleep but still noticed, there were substantial version updates to all my graphics drivers - the AMD ones for the MP, and the Intel and Nvidia ones for the rMBP included in 10.9.2. (FYI: Radeon 7950 owners see ROM Switch note/tip below.-M)
Who knows what other fixes they slipped in? Mavericks (10.9.1) has to be one of the buggiest OS's I ever used; I had to relaunch Finder regularly just to empty the trash!
-Paul"
Thanks Paul. That's why I would never upgrade to a new major OS X release on a work machine, but you had no choice with the new 2013 Mac Pro. (And some software also requires 10.9.x, like Final Cut Pro X 10.1 he uses.) Let me know if you see any pros or cons later on. A few days late posting your Feb. 25th mail but thanks for the follow-up. (Can't reply to mails currently, sorry.)
BTW: Someone with an earlier Mac Pro (2012 model) reported problems waking from sleep. (Sometimes requiring a power button restart.) Not sure if the 2012 Mac Pros are affected by this but here's a link to my post on Why 2012 iMac/Mac Mini Powers Off after Hours of Sleep (Hibernates/Turns Off). May not be applicable to the 2012 Mac Pro however, but had some tips for the macs listed. (The 2012 and earlier Mac Pros are not listed as supporting standby so that pmset setting should have no effect on them.) And at that time I was running OS X 10.8.x on the late 2012 Mac Mini and I've not tested if this still happens in OS X 10.9.2.
(Jan 24th) Reply from a reader about problems with Thunderbolt and his 2013 Retina MBP:
"The problems that are described by the user are consistent with the thunderbolt issues that I have been experiencing with early 2013 15" Retina. I have a thunderbolt gigabit adapter that when used, will cause similar issues. I filed a bug report earlier this week. Here is a description of what I filed:
I have been using Apple's Thunderbolt Gigabit Ethernet adapter for about 10 months now with my 15" Retina (Early 2013), and I have had some interesting experiences. The Thunderbolt Gigabit adapter was buggy with Mountain Lion, but is equally buggy with Mavericks. When the adapter is used, these are typical:
- Machine frequently does not wake up. This happens even if the Thunderbolt adapter has been unplugged while the machine was awake, or unplugged while sleeping.
(Does it hibernate & power off after hours of sleep? Even 2012+ desktops on A/C power do that. (Link includes tweaks to try.)-M)
- Machine frequently tries to wake up, after about a minute, it kernel panics, and spontaneously reboots, and files a report with Apple.
- If the power nap feature is enabled, things get nastier. On at least one occasion, I found my machine going full blast and rather hot in the morning with a fully bright screen displaying a large broken folder. Console indicates machine woke up and tried to make a network connection, and failed where it should have succeeded. All downhill after that.
In summary, light use of the thunderbolt adapter causes two or more forced reboots and kernel panics per week both with Mountain Lion and Mavericks. Since the user with the Pro has a lot more of thunderbolt hardware, he is presumably experiencing a much more severe case of the issue. Unfortunately, Apple is apparently too busy working on the next iPhone's gold hue instead of fixing these fundamental Mac issues. Happy 30th anniversary of the Mac. Cheers.
-Ali K."
Thanks Ali. (Paul's later reply with more info added above on Feb 28th.)
